to even consider getting a puppy in my circumstances?

[NeedPerspective1234]

Before I get flamed, I am looking for real advice/ opinions and posting here on AIBU for traffic. I haven't made a decision on getting a dog as I know it is a big commitment and I want to make this choice responsibly.

I am a single woman in her mid 30s, working a full time professional job on a good wage. My office is 10 mins from my place and I only have to be at the office for either the morning or afternoon 3/4 days a week. I can WFH for the rest of the time. I live in a nice big one bedroom flat. Dog would be alone for 4-5 hours every day, but with me otherwise. I could easily take one or two weeks off to help the puppy settle in initially of course

I have been dreaming of getting a Labrador puppy since I can remember. Now for the first time in many years I feel like I have the financial, logistical and emotional stability to actually consider getting a dog and I have found a serious breeder. I really want to do it, but the sheer size of the commitment is making me hesitate as I want to make sure I can meet the dog's needs in my circumstances.

Do you think it would be unfair for me to get a dog? AIBU to even consider getting a puppy as a single working person? Is it doable? Thanks for your advice!

I wouldn't OP as would not like to leave it alone for so long.

Yes I think it would be hugely unfair to get a puppy in these circumstances- especially a working breed.

They need lots of attention and exercise, 2 weeks to help it settle in won't be enough.

Unless you can work from home, I'd consider getting a cat instead.

I've had labs for over forty years. No way would I consider one in a one bed flat.

As for leaving them alone, I had two who had been left alone for long periods of time by their previous owner, they had massive issues with separation anxiety and I would say that they were mentally tortured by it

Labs are lovely dogs, but require a huge investment in time and energy. There are variations in personaliry within the breed, and if you were to end up with one of the bouncier, more energetic types then you may well find your flat is quickly trashed!

I think considering an older, smaller dog may be a possibility, but not many dogs are happy being left completely alone for long periods of time, despite the protestations people make that they are fine.

We have two labs and our youngest is 6 months so very recent experience of the puppy stage.

There is no way you can leave a puppy that long. Until puppy is fully vaccinated (16 weeks or more) you can’t use day care. You’ll either need to pay for a puppy visiting service or get a friend or relative to stay with puppy. In my experience wfh with a puppy is the same as wfh with a baby - doable but certainly not easy! So you may need to ask for time off.

Our puppy went out to toilet every hour for the first few weeks while she was toilet training. We have a secure garden. I’m not sure how easy it will be for you in a flat? Plus they can’t use a communal space to toilet until fully vaccinated.

Once they are vaccinated, I would really recommend day care. Labs are amazing and loving but their teenage phase is difficult and they can be destructive if they are not stimulated. Our day care is £25 per day. Factor in things like if you want to go shopping - have you got a space where you can leave the dog for an hour? Do you like going out on the evening? You will need dog care then too. What will you do if you go on holiday?

Labs need lots of exercise and mental stimulation. Both of ours went to gun dog training and both will happily play and walk for HOURS. Dog training is not cheap and it’s time consuming but so worth it and it’s really the best thing for a lab. Ours loved it and are just the most amazing pets. We don’t do any hunting or anything like that, but the training was invaluable as both their recall and general behaviour is impeccable.

It’s really expensive with the insurance, vet plan, worming and tic subscription, day care, food, groomers, food, training, toys, secure field rental, harnesses, leads etc… it goes on!

Ours take up a lot of room! We’re in a pretty spacious semi with a big back garden. We can’t move for them and their stuff!!

BUT - they are amazing, the best things ever. We all adore them. You just have to be prepared to give them what they need and that requires some sacrifice!

4 hours sounds reasonable.
obviously difficult at first

I absolutely love dogs and have had them all my life. I work 20 hours a week and 1/3 of that is from home. Even then, I struggle with caring for our (adult) dog. It will be hard both for the dog and for you. It may not

I’d highly recommend a cat instead.

Unrealistic

@Swansridinghorses "First few days just for 15-30 minutes and left with lots of treats and puzzle games/lickimats (and after a play/training so naturally soon to sleep) and then build up to a couple of hours over a week or so."

Yes but OP isn't thinking of leaving it for 2 hours, but 5!

so much negativity here
i hope you can find more balanced opinions somewhere op @NeedPerspective1234

OP said 4-5 hours. Let's be realistic, it will be 5 hours.

We got a Labrador puppy last year. First dog for any of us and it was recommended as one of the easier dogs to train and handle family life.
Everyone who meets her esp those who know labradors say we have landed on our feet. She is very chilled and easy going. She would not struggle with 4 hrs by herself at 14 months but needs to be out very early for a long walk beforehand. Not a trot around the block.
Do you have a large park or outside space suitable to let a dog off a lead literally within 5 mins walk? If not then I am sorry but a lab is too big for your set up.

Ditto a pre bed time wee. Will you feel safe out v late and in the early ours to toilet a young dog?

Dog walkers early £20 per walk here. Transport costs on too (tax deductible) so a daily walk will add up.
Dog daycare is more expensive for puppies &50-60 per day. So a work business trip, away day, day out with friends, family event and you have more cost.
Insurance is £50 per month if you want lifetime cover (new conditions don't become pre-existing conditions in 12 months)

We love our dog but it is like having a large boisterous male toddler (she's female) around all the time. Clumsy, tail clearing coffee tables, endless desire to play tug of war or have a ball thrown. She's been life changing, we spend a lot more time outside but when the weather is bickering down she is a breed that means you just have to get on with it.

Or more if she is stuck in traffic/on the bus.

A person who suggests leaving a puppy for 5 hours a day, after it has been there two weeks and thinks bringing a lab into a 1 bed flat.... has an invalid opinion that shouldn't be listened to.

Correct, dogs are pack animals who don't like being left on their own for hours; 5 + hours will feel like forever to a dog.

No negativity, just the reality of owning an energetic puppy 😉

I have a lab. He is easy going and wonderful but that it as a result of a 2 way relationship where we don’t take the mick and he trusts us to be reliable and meet his needs.

He can and is left for 4 or 5 hours but it is more like once a week/fortnight rather than every day. We built up to that very slowly.

I agree with PP that a 1 bed flat is not much space for a large breed dog, unless we are talking about an extraordinary 2000sqft loft apartment style number. Even then, it’s not ideal with no garden.

In terms of working hours. Working for 4/5 hours a day is all very well but about the times when you want to go out socialising? The dog will be left alone then, too, so it’ll be more like 7-10 hours a day on days where you go out and are working. Or if you only socialise on days where you don’t work, it’ll be more like 4-5 hours a day, 7 days a week (or whatever the multiple is for you). Be honest with yourself and work it out. You can use doggy day care but some dogs can find that a very stressful environment, so don’t assume it’ll work for you.

Dogs are a HUGE tie. Very rewarding but a massive tie. You have to adjust your lifestyle a lot to accommodate their needs. Be honest with yourself as to whether or not that’s doable at the moment.

I know very little about dogs but I know that a puppy would take longer than two weeks to settle in.
How will you toilet train it ?
I know people who work part time and they still have a dog walker.
I don't think it would work for you at the moment.

what you want is a cat

4-5 hours a day is absolutely fine once the dog is 6 months old. I think your situation sounds ideal compared to some others I’ve seen! Get him crate trained early as well so he just sleeps in his cosy little den while you’re out. Maybe your employer can let you reduce time in the office for the first few months, or you can pay a dog walker to do puppy visits.

I wouldn’t write off this suggestion either! Consider it!

Agree, it's possible a cat would fulfill whatever it is that OP is looking for from dog ownership. I don't remember her actually mentioning what exactly that is, only that she's been dreaming of getting a Labrador puppy forever, so it's hard to make informed suggestions based only on that. The suggestions of an older, smaller, calmer, trained, vaccinated dog would also seem to make some sense.

I know my suggestion of rats would have probably also been instantly written off by the majority… I'm aware it might sound kind of left-field to those who aren't familiar with pet rats, and it's possible that rats wouldn't work for OP.

But when the pet somebody is thinking about getting (but for practical reasons, reluctantly decides they currently shouldn't) is a dog, then compared to a cat, the experiential quality of looking after, interacting with, and building a relationship with pet rats is IMO closer to the specific flavour of animal companionship you get from a dog. Obviously keeping rats isn't the same thing as having a dog, but I don't think it's as different from dogs as the way you look after, interact with, and build a relationship with a cat is.

If what somebody is looking for when they're thinking of getting a dog is an animal that's friendly, intelligent, responsive to you, always glad to see you, playful (except middle-aged+ male rats, who mostly want to chill), (somewhat) trainable, and that relates to you in a kinda dog-like way and thinks in a way that's kinda familiar to humans (if less complex), rats might be a good choice. (Always worth mentioning you shouldn't just have one lone rat; they're social and intelligent, and you're incapable of some kind of rat interaction, so they need rat companions.)

Lots of people obviously love having pet cats, but depending on what OP is looking for from dog ownership, cats may be too fundamentally different an animal from a dog.

The natural social structure of rat family and friend/acquaintance groups, the rat ecological niche and strategy, and the way that rats think and behave, is extremely similar to humans, just closer to the ground, with more tail and less brainpower. Like us, they naturally build complex networks of relationships, and they tend to treat their owners… not quite as another rat, exactly, but as a sort of giant friend, someone who's always worth spending time with.

Dogs also live in fair-sized social groups, and of course have developed specific behavioural tendencies towards building relationships with humans that have a particular quality about them. Rats and dogs aren't anything like identical in how they relate to humans, but they're not completely different.

The relationships cats build with their owners and vice versa are of a type that do feel pretty different from that, IME. That's no less rewarding, of course, for those looking for that kind of interaction and relationship, but because of the natural differences in the way cats interact socially and build relationships, their way of life, ecological niche and their psychology, they're a really different pet.

Also, if you really really need to go for walks, you can (if you like) go for a walk with a rat on your shoulder, pirate-style, or in a hoodie pouch. Just saying As long as you're mindful of the fact that small animals have small digestive tracts, and can't hold on forever…

Anyway… OP probably has a lot of different options for pets that she could provide a wonderful life to, without massively disrupting her life, but if what she actually wants is specifically and solely to have a Labrador from puppyhood onwards, maybe settling for an alternative wouldn't be the best thing. It wouldn't be what OP really wants, and that could end up being a really difficult situation.

I have a 1 year old lab. I wouldn’t want to live with her in a one bed flat now, let alone when she was younger. She would climb the walls. It’s not enough space. You wouldn’t be around enough to stimulate her and she could become destructive.

Puppy training/management/advice is what I do for a living (alongside treating/avoiding separation anxiety!)...

No. Thats totally nuts.

Puppies have NO ability to be on their own, reliably, for a useful time frame, for about the first 9 months to a year of their life.

(That doesn't mean some individuals can't manage half an hour here, an hour there, once they are 6 months old... before anyone dives in to say 'yeah but my puppy...').

Even if a puppy is relaxed and comfortable on their own:

• What are they learning
• What are they NOT learning
• Who are they bonding with?

A puppy on their own is not learning what you want them to learn, may be learning things you do not want them to learn and is not bonding with you (so even if you've got a neighbour, daycare, whatever set up... it's not you providing their security, it is not you they are bonding with).

A couple of weeks off is NOT long enough to set your puppy up to handle being alone - a couple of months wouldn't be.

What you are suggesting would involve a puppy suffering, probably trashing your house, upsetting the neighbours, at risk from hypoglycemia (yes they need to eat every few hours, 4 times a day and small breeds are at a higher risk). A puppy who grows up to be an anxious reactive mess because they missed out on the early habituation, security and confidence building puppies need.

I am sure if you ask enough people, some will tell you its fine, they did it, it's no bother - if you ask any question often enough you will eventually get the answers you want. You will also find breeders unscrupulous enough to sell you a puppy, or of course you can lie to them.

This will not be fun for you, or the puppy.

If you REALLY want a dog - first, sort out being able to take a month off work. Then sort out a sitter who can stay in your home.

Then find a suitable rescue dog - perhaps small independent rescue, breeder who is rehoming older ex show dogs. Spend that first month settling them in and introducing them to the sitters/day care etc.

Then spend the next 6 months ensuring they become confident and secure, then work on building up the time they can be alone for very gradually.

It's a lot of work, but then this is someone who will rely on you 100% for their every need for the next 10 years or more.

*some kindS of rat interaction

A puppy, yes you are insane. The lab will chew up your apartment and poo and pee all over!

A dog would be better. Do you have stairs? My dog tore his ligament age5, huge op and no stairs after that. Do you have a gff so they can do their business? My dog would eat random stuff and be outside vomiting and having diarrhoea whilst I cleaned inside. It wasn’t pretty. I can’t imagine that in a flat. You need a dog you can carry!