School budget cuts- is this normal?

[SummerDuck]

So a letter has come out from DS’s school titled “Plans for the next academic year”. Basically due to teacher pay rises, inflation and government funding freeze, there will need to be changes in how the school operates.

The school are proposing 20 teacher redundancies with the drama and French departments closing. There will be a “reset” of catering provision with reduced staffing and a heat from frozen offer.

School trips are being “paused” while most office staff will go, with teachers picking up some of these tasks. Is this the norm bod for state schools?

Teaching doesn't pay enough to get people into the profession. That is really the bottom line.

Market forces determine salaries in the private sector. You need a particular skill set in industry, you have to pay the going rate for that skill set. If you need that expertise, you pay what that expertise is worth to you.

If you can't recruit, it's because you're not paying enough. This is doubly true when working conditions are notoriously crap.

If they could sort out working conditions, then no - the pay issue wouldn't be so great - but that takes massive investment too. It also means recruiting more teachers to ease the load on those covering twice as many classes and struggling with SEN groups on top of a class. It also involves the Secretary of State for Education engaging on that subject, which she has failed to do.

So round and round we go.

If you don't want to fix working conditions, you have to pay more so people think the crap working conditions are worth it.

If you want to fix working conditions, you have to recruit.

You can't recruit if they pay isn't enough to attract the skills you need.

Many experienced teachers are on £45-50k

Nobody in my primary is on more than £43k except the deputy (who is class-based virtually full time) and the head.

We have no TLRs, no SEN allowances. I’ve been teaching over 25 years. I could move schools but in the absence of pay portability (thank you, Mr Gove), I’m unlikely to earn any more anyway, unless I become deputy or head, neither of which I want to do.

@lifeissweet exactly.

Yep, this is it exactly.

I'm at the top of UPS and last year I quit my TLR responsibilities because the stress was not worth the money at all. At the moment, you would have to pay me £70k+ to tempt me back into full time teaching and additional year leader / subject leader responsibilities, simply because I would need to pay for a cleaner/housekeeper, so much extra childcare, gardener etc because I would be working all the hours god sends to do the job justice. Don't forget to add on the cost of therapy when my anxiety returns and I start having panic attacks again.

Nope. But do know things privately for various reasons. Its depressing and concerning.

Well we can’t vote Labour as they will get rid of VAT exemption for private schools meaning 20% increase in fees. We can’t afford that and would have to go back to state school meaning private schools then really will be only for the super rich.

Many experienced teachers are on £45-50k

This is higher than UPS3. The top is £43k (as someone else has pointed out) how can ‘many’ be on 45-50k when 43k is the top?

It'd bring up the standard in some of the worst schools instantly as if you leave private education you aren't getting in the 'good schools'. Would look great on paper for Labour without actually doing anything!

That sounds worse than a lot of schools, mainly because it's happening all at once, but I've experienced all of the things on that list at my last school over several years.

Agree - what a load of nonsense. Pay scales are published for all to see. Outside of London the top of the scale is 43k. I haven't worked in a LA school (which most primaries are) that gives a TLR for anything other than SENCO for years, and SENCO requires a masters level degree so the extra 40 quid a month or whatever is well justified. The majority of classroom teachers in a primary will earn in the 30Ks.

Well we can’t vote Labour as they will get rid of VAT exemption for private schools meaning 20% increase in fees. We can’t afford that and would have to go back to state school meaning private schools then really will be only for the super rich.

Thought as much! It's the general Tory argument.

When labour effectively price many families out of private education, there will be 1000's more children in the state sector needing to be educated. Unless they intend to find this I despair.

fund this

Pay scales aren't published. There's no such thing as a teacher payscales anymore, only top and bottom is "official" and academies (so most secondaries) don't have to use them anyway.

People envisaged that would mean pay in academies was lower, but it hasn't, in some subjects they're paying the earth.

We’d just move to an expensive area with a good school which will then price someone out of that area and so on and so on. There will still be the big wealth divide.

How about Labour do what some countries have done…make all state schools so good that no one wants to use private so they vanish anyway? That would be the proper way to do it.

Wow.

Gotta say it but our independent school is thriving and growing in numbers.

The widening gap is scary.

"According to the Government’s 2022 School Workforce in England Report, the average Full Time Equivalent salary for the 465,526 teachers in state-funded schools was £42,358 per annum.
The average salary for a classroom teacher was £39,000, compared to £57,100 for a leadership teacher (excluding headteachers), and £74,100 for a headteacher."
"Secondary school teachers were said to earn slightly more (£40,400) on average than primary school teachers (£37,500). Salaries were higher on average in Local Authority maintained schools than in Academy schools."

Salaries were higher on average in Local Authority maintained schools than in Academy schools

I suspected that would be the case!

If you think the pay is shit, then you're out of touch with what the average person earns.

The point is that until you are very experienced, the pay is shit for what you have to do. If it weren't, there wouldn't be a recruitment and retention crisis. They either have to increase pay or drastically improve workload and conditions. There's no sign of the latter happening, so the only other option is to make the job more financially attractive, or kids will simply not have teachers. How well or badly you think teachers are paid compared with the average person is neither here nor there.

It's all the other stuff that needs sorting out. The job is untenable from many, no matter what it paid

agree with this

I mean, I wouldn't say £43k in your mid thirties with a post grad qualification and 10 years experience is very much at all. That's very low. You can get that without a degree in the civil service

@Foxesandsquirrels where did I say it was? The teachers I know are on much more then 43k but that's anecdotal.

Again - I would like to draw your attention to the lag effect.

This is true right now because of many teachers who went through UPS threshold years ago.

This average is going to head downwards. Schools are increasingly staffed by younger and younger teachers.

@lifeissweet I'm not disagreeing with the lag effect. I'm simply posting some actual stats about salaries so the conversation can move on 🙄

£74,100 for the responsibilities of a Head Teacher is an absolute disgrace.

I know some are on much more, but I still think it's terrible.

They are CEOs, CFOs and Buildings Managers all in one person - and that is without the million added pressures and unbearable scrutiny.

I hope they vote to strike too.

You can get 43k in the civil service without a degree?!

Wow.

I took ahuge paydrop to teach adults.
considers plan C

I know! It's really helpful. I was just pointing out for the unaware that this is unlikely to last as a statistic for long. Thanks!