School budget cuts- is this normal?

[SummerDuck]

So a letter has come out from DS’s school titled “Plans for the next academic year”. Basically due to teacher pay rises, inflation and government funding freeze, there will need to be changes in how the school operates.

The school are proposing 20 teacher redundancies with the drama and French departments closing. There will be a “reset” of catering provision with reduced staffing and a heat from frozen offer.

School trips are being “paused” while most office staff will go, with teachers picking up some of these tasks. Is this the norm bod for state schools?

The issue isn't teachers pay. They earn really quite well, and definitely above the UK average. Many experienced teachers are on £45-50k.

Don't do this.

I know very few teachers at UPS3 (£43k) and they tend to be near to retirement.

To get to that level now, you have to stay in teaching for a long time. It used to be 10 years to get through main pay scale and 2 years each through UPS1 and 2.

Now, a massive percentage of teachers don't make it to the 5 year mark. Those who do will find moving increments increasingly difficult as goalposts shift. Crossing threshold onto the Upper pay scale can mean jumping through increasingly difficult hoops and can take years.

Then if you need to change schools due to a house move or change in circumstances, you may struggle to find a job on the same point you were on before.

So £45-50k is an outlier of a salary - and will become more so as older teachers on that level leave because they've had enough of losing money year or year, they are burning out or they are retiring.

It's utterly misleading.

yes, DD's primary had to start doing a 4.5 day week as they couldn't afford to keep it open 5 days. School only until lunch time on Friday.

I've recently introduced free school meals for all in our secondary. One of the proudest achievements of my career.

We're in a deprived area and find that families on the cusp of entitlement are struggling most. We have lots of social and behavioural problems and no one having to worry about getting fed, plus staff and students eating together has made a huge differenceWe've e reduced the choice so everyone has a "dinner" rather than snack/junk food and that brings the cost per meal down. The kitchen stsff are amazing and creat a "family" dinner feel.

Take up is really strong. We treat it is as part of the PSHE curriculum.

Budgets are tight, but can be managed.

plus, they let most of the long standing teachers go and only kept the nqt or those with very few years as salaries are much lower. Thankfully, left primary behind. It was awful and teaching really declined.

@lifeissweet it's insane to me that that's the salary for a very experienced teacher. Insane.

@Dotandtime we simply couldn't do that. We don't have the space, so we'd have to stagger lunch.

Don't do this.

I know very few teachers at UPS3 (£43k) and they tend to be near to retirement.

To get to that level now, you have to stay in teaching for a long time. It used to be 10 years to get through main pay scale and 2 years each through UPS1 and 2.

Again I think there is huge discrepancies. I'm in London & have lots of teachers in the family, wider family & through my work. Lots of it UPS3 by early 30s & and many are SLT by mid 30s. This is secondary though.

I work in a primary school and look after the HR. Many of our experienced teachers are on more than £45k. Add in "head of key stage" responsibilities they're pushing £55k. Our head earns £80k and has worked her way up from a NQT at the school to head 15 years later.

The salaries really aren't bad.

Yes, shortening lunch breaks also helps with behaviour

I’m struggling to get my head around teacher salaries- my child’s school is an academy and each school within the trust employs 10x head / deputy head teachers. How can a school complain about finances when they are paying head teacher salaries x 10?

I work in a school fgs. I can be as transparent as I wish.

In my experience, working in schools, teachers salaries really aren't the issue.

The working environment is.

@radiatorpipe I mean, I wouldn't say £43k in your mid thirties with a post grad qualification and 10 years experience is very much at all. That's very low. You can get that without a degree in the civil service.

£43k + annual increases for working 38-40 weeks of the year really isn't that bad though.

Many people earn a lot less with more hours, in jobs that also require degrees, training with high stress.

It's not a race to the bottom, but the answer for sustainability isnt teacher salaries. That's not why people are leaving. And if it is, then good luck finding jobs that earn similar with similar annual leave.

I don't recognise a world where UPS teachers are being reduced. Recruitment and retention means almost all our teachers are UPS. I'd say over 80%. When were recruiting they'll either be ECT or UPS, we don't get applications from fully qualified mainscale teachers. I do know academies locally are using a lot of unqualified teachers (instructors) though.

@SchoolShenanigans I agree that's not why people are leaving. Its the job conditions and a million other things. People know what the salary is when they apply for it, what they don't realise is just what they'll have to put up with to get that salary. I still think the pay is 💩

You'd have to be a pretty large primary for that to work, and have a pay structure that recognises that.

If an example member of staff is on £55k and not on the leadership spine, how is that broken down? They must be on TLR 1? That is rarely/never offered to primary teachers, never seen in job adverts. Are you in London or the fringe?

If you think the pay is shit, then you're out of touch with what the average person earns.

Not anymore - especially primary.

I don't think teachers pay is bad either and honestly, that's not why they leave.

I know far more teachers who feel "trapped" in teaching because they can't earn the salary elsewhere than I do who left for more money.

It's all the other stuff that needs sorting out. The job is untenable from many, no matter what it paid.

@SchoolShenanigans most schools only pay the 'minimum' TLR 2 as well.

I don't disagree with you that the working conditions ARE the worst thing. I just want to know how the teachers in your school are earning as much as you say, ad I feel like I'm being massively mugged off! Not just by the school I'm working in now - but I've only ever known primary schools to offer the minimum TLR 2.

I work in a primary school and look after the HR. Many of our experienced teachers are on more than £45k
This isn't impossible. One of my colleagues was on M6 plus tlr for subject leadership, so at an inner London school that would have pushed her over the £45K.
The issue is that she is now moving school, new school expects her to take same subject lead role but no tlr, so she gets a pay cut.
Another teacher in her existing school is expected to replace her as subject lead, but it no longer comes with tlr.
So anyone earning a reasonable salary thanks to a tlr or UPS given 8- 10 years ago is either trapped in their current role or will have to accept a pay cut if they move on. Those who came in behind the 'good times' have no hope of earning the same as their predecessors.

I know of staff trying to reduce hours but this is unresolved. This would mean the head would need to approve this or they will quit completely. Either way she's yet to make decisions and has said to the staff that she has some difficult decisions to make. In the meantime she would definitely need to recruit at least one member of staff to retain current staffing levels. It concerns me that at this stage in the year, this isn't already in progress. If the staff don't get their hours agreed I know they plan to walk completely.

So my gut feeling is there will definitely be a reduction in staffing. That begs the question which year group is going to be worst hit by that. My son's class needed an additional TA not a reduction in the overall numbers in the school.

This will also have an impact on activities they can run outside the premises. They will struggle with staffing levels.

I work in a primary school and look after the HR. Many of our experienced teachers are on more than £45k. Add in "head of key stage" responsibilities they're pushing £55k. Our head earns £80k and has worked her way up from a NQT at the school to head 15 years later.

You are not factoring in the time-lag here.
Experienced teachers need to have worked 10 years to get to UPS at an absolute minimum. So many teachers are now dropping out before 5 years - this is a recent phenomenon.

So when your UPS teachers leave, the work force will be dominated ECTs-MPS5 and a much smaller proportion of those who finally get through to UPS.

Those currently on UPS3 crossed threshold years ago when it wasn't so difficult to do (maybe not in your school, but in many the Heads make it really tough)

It is still misleading to suggest that £45-50k is anything like an average teacher's salary.

TLRs are increasingly hard to get and you'd have to practically sell your soul and give up sleeping to get one now. I know SENCOs who don't get one - certainly TLR1 is almost unheard of.

Maybe you have a particularly generous Head. Who knows?

The UK is a low wage economy and most people's pay is 💩. Others earning less doesn't change my opinion on how badly paid teachers are.

@RedToothBrush Sorry I may have misunderstood, do you work at your son's school?
This whole situation sounds very stressful. I understand heads are in a very difficult position but I really think any major staffing changes should be communicated early enough so you can look elsewhere.