AIBU to tell you that First Direct closed bank account of gender critical blogger

[Snorkers]

https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1673371351942307840

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1673371351942307840.html

Who's next? What other beliefs are no longer allowed to partake in society?

Thank you @Gracewithoutend

You have articulated exactly how I feel.

If banks can do this there must be a ‘National’ bank where ostracised folk can have access to online banking services.

In many cases, particularly in cases involving PEPs, banks cannot tell the account owner why the account is being closed, as doing so would in itself be a tipping off offence. If you get a notice from the FCA, or from the SFO, or from the security services telling you to close someone’s account, tipping them off as to why would be an invitation to a standup meeting with no coffee.

How convenient for banks who wish to close the accounts of non politically exposed persons who happen to have views they disagree with without needing to give a reason why.

I understand that there are laws that dictate about not informing and tipping off. It might be that banks aren't breaking the law. But the law needs to be reformed. Honestly, if you're doing something illegal and the ban shuts your bank account, isn't that the biggest tip off of all? If someone's money laundering and the bank closes their account, do we really think they're scratching their heads and wondering if they'd made an off colour remark about trans people? Or are they going, shit, they're onto the money laundering.

These investigatory bodies should need to have evidence before they shut accounts. I know that that is frustrating and certainly there'd be no one standing up for any child trafficker not to have their account closed, but should we allow them to do that to catch these criminals when it means that innocent people lives are being destroyed and they have no way of defending themselves? If we allow bodies to shut bank accounts without evidence, mistakes are made. Does anybody seriously think that the police, etc, and the banks don't make mistakes?

The state, which includes all these financial authorities, have allowed the banks to exert huge power over our lives. We are completely controlled by them and can't exist without them. You can't operate any longer by keeping your money in the mattress. So if the state and the banks are going to have this huge power over our lives, they have to be more accountable. Just to close accounts without any explanation or given evidence is no longer justifiable because they're catching up all sorts of people in their nets that are innocent and have no recourse.

Murderers have more rights. There are legal requirements for arrests and detention times. But for banking customers there aren't. I know that sounds dramatic but honestly if you get trapped in the hole of not being able to pay any of your bills, not be able to get any wages, etc, it really is that dramatic and stressful.

If farage were on a restricted parties list I think we’d know about it. Those are publicly available.

I don’t know what a “restricted party” is. Farage is a PEP. As are all current and ex MPs and MEPs. Lists of PEPs are held by all financial institutions and are obviously not public.

Many of these investigatory bodies deal in intelligence, not evidence, evidence comes later. Shutting down a person of interest’s account is often done to see where they move their money to as much as to limit their financial agency.

if you worry about what FSIs get up
to you REALLY don’t want to hear about telcos!

How is this relevant to the church minister who had his account closed?

He's not a politically exposed person, is he?

Many of these investigatory bodies deal in intelligence, not evidence, evidence comes later. Shutting down a person of interest’s account is often done to see where they move their money to as much as to limit their financial agency.

if you worry about what FSIs get up
to you REALLY don’t want to hear about telcos!

Yeah, well, we went to war with Iraq based on intelligence - and the evidence never came later.

It's all very well them playing their little games of chess to see next moves, etc. It must be very interesting for them in their safe offices where their money and lives aren't threatened. What price do they pay when they've made a mistake? Er, that would be zippo. Where do people go for help? There's nowhere to go.

I do worry what these bodies get up to, as should everyone who is at their mercy - which is the entire country. I can't believe how insouciant people are over losing basic rights to faceless bureaucrats that you can't fight.

No, what I am saying is that people need to understand that they don't have a right to have their views heard by everyone, everywhere, all the time. There's a time and place for expressing opinions.

I've managed to go my entire adult life without being barred from places or having accounts closed down, despite holding strong views that often go against the mainstream, simply by NOT writing to every organisation I disagree with or being stupid enough to post under my real name on social media.

If you're big / arrogant / stupid enough to air your opinions where they're neither wanted or asked for then you're big enough to deal with the consequences.

I also don't understand why you'd want to bank with / support an organisation who are diametrically opposed to your core beliefs when there are alternatives out there you could use?

What a lot of things you don't understand.

The most galling thing is that these banks are quite happy to accept vast sums of dirty money from regimes such as Saudi or Qatar dressed up as business investment funds. Nice fees in it for them, no questions asked.

What an odd thing for banks to get upset about, people believing you can't change sex, how out there! 🙄🤔

The whole thing is so bizarre.

I've managed to go my entire adult life without being barred from places or having accounts closed down,

...yet. That's the point. Other people had spent their entire adult life without being barred from places or having accounts closed down... until they were.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12256943/Its-not-just-Nigel-Farage-daughter-blocked-opening-bank-account.html

There seem to be two issues Stonewalls index and PEP, if you are a political party member of have a grandparent in the HoL you can be refused a bank account.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 30/06/2023 17:48
Being an arsehole doesn’t usually preclude you from having a bank account ….”

Businesses can do business with whoever they wish. Farage is discriminatory and has dubious connections/funding.

Well no, they do have to abide by international law and the laws of the countries they operate in.

Are they closing the bank accounts of the political parties in receipt of Russian donations or just those that disagree with their views?

Weird how Wings of Scotland lost his accounts after a prominent Trans Activist got a job as 'Global Lead of Financial Tracking'...in his bank...just 4 years after leaving the army. Must have been quite an intense training course in global finance he went on in those 4 years...to become Global Lead...

I think it should be illegal for banks to close the active bank account of anyone who is not legitimately suspected of having committed a financial crime, and anyone who has their bank account closed for this reason and is not subsequently convicted of a financial crime must have their bank account reinstated and be paid £100,000 in compensation plus any costs they have incurred as a result of the account closure for the duration of the time it was closed. And there should be an independent investigation to determine whether the closure was innocent or motivated by non legitimate reasons, and if it turns out to be the latter the person who ordered the closure should face sanctions.

This won't bankrupt the banks, but should hopefully be enough to disincentivise bank employees on a power trip from closing the accounts of people whose views they disagree with.

They could take out all our MPs and Lords, by closing their bank accounts, see the Times article.

Have you read what Dentons suggested years ago?.

As wings provided the evidence on his Twitter, trans activists took banking jobs and then closed his account.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0ae0f936-178d-11ee-8fcc-23dc1e6b4441?shareToken=9ae6515845ccb8b5c7ba6725258c1a45

The financial services ombudsman's website says that they may require a bank to reinstate an account if it has been unreasonably closed. So it would appear the banks are not free to close one without good reason. Also, equalities law applies to everyone. Unfair discrimination on grounds of philosophical belief breaks the law, and gender critical belief has been found by the courts to be a philosophical belief for the purposes of the act.

That Spectator link is extraordinary and deserves a thread of its own.

I'm getting more and more angry at people refusing to look at this issue. Their lobbying tactics are laid out for all to see.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4059873-Deep-Dive-on-the-Dentons-document

Thanks @AlisonDonut

If you prefer longer length analysis, this was released just yesterday. I'm halfway through it.

https://objectnow.org/2018-7-27-yogyakarta-principles-international-threat-to-womens-rights/

Was it this group that funded Dentons?