Ask tenant to replace cooker she's ruined?

[MacarenaMacarena]

4 years ago tenant moved into my flat. I provided a new cooker for her. It's now not working. On closer inspection, she has used it a lot (fair!) but never cleaned it (disappointing), damage from her treatment of it is what has damaged it.
She needs another one.
But I don't really think this is reasonable wear and tear - more neglect and abuse.
Reasonable inspections and checks have been carried out regularly, compulsive gas safety checks have been done.
If she moved out tomorrow I could deduct at least part of the replacement cost from her deposit, but as she's staying, what would be a fair way forward?

As a landlord you will need to ensure it is safe before it is installed so would need to employ someone to sign it off.

She’ll need to employ someone to remove the old one and install it so that wouldn’t be an issue.

My kids always have. Cookers are there but washing machines and dishwashers not. Fridges/freezers occasionally

I sympathise- I bought a new cooker for my tenants. After 2 years they left (letting agent did regular checks) and the grill pan had about 15 layers of dirty smelly tin foil on. I couldn’t believe it! They’d also lost the grill pan handle and the electric hobs were rusty. The man I paid to clean it said he’d never ever seen such rusty hobs and couldn’t understand how the tenants had got it that way🤔

I had a tenant, who moved out and left the oven dirty. The cleaners then cleaned the oven. They must sprayed oven cleaner on the grill element (which they shouldn’t do) and not wiped it off. The element rusted and started shedding so the oven was unusable. I couldn’t prove anything as the damage took a couple of weeks to appear.

I replaced the darn thing. Shit happens.

I think four years would probably class as fair wear and tear even if it probably isn't. You can mention that you expect them to keep it clean as it's "new".

I’m Indian. Rented to another Indian couple. In 1 year they ruined the cooker by not cleaning it because some fatty cusines cause a build up - it was confirmed by the expert hired to fix it. Best thing to do is just put in cheap cookers. I’ve learned my lesson now.

This is what your landlord insurance is for

Yes, sorry, you’re being unreasonable and really you don’t have an argument. You’re a landlord and she doesn’t have a working oven, it’s your duty to replace it. I’d have a word on maintaining it but really 4 years is a good innings but what presumably is not a very expensive oven in the first place and I’d very much doubt that not cleaning it has caused any mechanical problems. Suck it up and move on.

I’ve never fully cleaned an oven in my life but then I don’t tend to let things drip onto the bottom of the over of cook foods that splash all over the oven. If anything spills I wipe that up as soon as I notice it & can do so safely & that is the extent of me ‘cleaning’ an oven.
If you supply an oven then it is your responsibility to maintain it not the tenants & how they use it is their prerogative. Unless they have melted plastic or something corrosive on it basic use would not break an oven. Replace it & pay for it to be cleaned, just like you’d pay for a boiler service & gas check, every 1/2/3months.

You’re obviously a really nice person. I wish I knew you.

You sound like a shit landlord. You don’t know how much it’s used, you don’t know how much it’s cleaned.
how do you even break an oven via abuse? I’m a shit cook but my oven still works….
you have shit reasoning, if you don’t charge market rent that’s your own problem….don’t expect people to be grateful.
Ive had a tenant on the same rent for the past 10 years…..I appreciate a decent tenant.
now fuck off and buy her a new oven

It's your job as a landlord to replace it

And that quite simply is that

Ffs. I’m 46, lived in many houses, bought and rented. I’ve had quality cookers/white goods and the cheapest of the cheap (in rented lol!). I’ve only ever cleaned 2 ovens properly in my entire life. The last one was in our own kitchen and minging - prob a 12yo oven that had never been cleaned since we bought the house - about 8 years but that’s life and we’re busy etc (excuses excuses). Anyway, one day I decided to clean it to within an inch of its life. It was a Belling something and it came up like new, I thought I was in for some serious brownie points until I switched it back on and it went BANG. It tripped all the trip switches and the entire house was in darkness. It was integrated so I physically removed it and the fans had been extremely noisy during the entire time we’d had the house but I was surprised to see that the insides of the unit had been slowly catching fire over the years and you’d never had seen the damage until the oven had been removed so the next day a beautiful AEG with stacks of features turned up courtesy of AO - 899 instead of 1300 iirc - 10 mins to fit it (only three elec cables) and it transformed the kitchen. We had a huge range type thing as well which wasn’t a fan oven so it was quiet but only good for when you were cooking for 10people with loads of trays of meats and roast veg etc, so the moral really is that I cleaned it and it repaid me by going pop and costing a fortune for a new one, but it was whisper quiet, superb features, 10yr warranty and hasn’t tried to burn the house down. Sorry for the rant/drift.

incidentally for small amounts of cooking we bought a Samsung combo/convection oven/microwave/grill fancy thing for 300£ and it heats up in mins and cooks a raw chicken to roast in about 35/40mins. Pennies to run.

for our rentals we put the cheapest possible - which are prob more expensive for day to day use for the tenant - but our own homes have pretty much the most expensive which are quiet, long warranties, cheap to run (AEG dishwasher 30min cycle is 18p) Samsung heat pump tumble dryer which is magical but we look after them which you cannot expect tenants to do unfortunately.

Exactly…..when we’ve had things break for our tenants either we or the agent goes out same/next day, spent 5mins looking and arrange a fix/replacement - very often a replacement is cheaper with a new warranty.

Very often this is because if the ll has a washing machine/tumble dryer etc etc then they are responsible for maintaining it and there’s no extra rent chargeable so they’ll be removed for the tenant to supply their own

"Rapidly deteriorating" carpets? What? She's loved there for just four years. You really expect us to believe her wearing shoes inside the home would cause this?

You still haven't explained how she broke your hob/oven. Still trying to figure out how she could have managed that.

You sound like hard work.

I agree, you sound like hard work.

I was in my last flat for 19 years, the cooker was nowhere near new when I moved in and still working prefectly when I moved out, and I rarely cleaned the oven.

As for the carpets - what rubbish! I, and most of the people I know, wear their shoes inside without causing any damage to the carpet.

Buy a new cooker and stop trying to blame your tenant for everything!

Buy a new cooker and stop trying to blame your tenant for everything!

Exactly. You need to take your duties as a landlord more seriously. Stop buying cheap crap and blaming your tenant for the fact it doesn't last.

Hi there OP,

I am a landlord too. You may have made your decision now, but I tell my tenants when they first move in that I am supplying all white goods initially, but if any break, replacement is down to them. My tenants replaced the cooker a few months ago and the washer-dryer a couple of years ago. In your case, I would replace the oven and put in writing that future white goods will not be replaced. I would also give the tenant 8 weeks notice of a rent increase to get it closer to the current cost of rents in your market. My mortgage costs went up hundreds and I increased my tenants rent by £75 per month as it was waaay below market value, having not being increase in 7 years and also being under market value in the first place. In the notification letter I also advised the rent would rise by 5% compound year on year from January 2024. So, have a look at the rental costs in your area for similar properties and make a rise that seems fair. I have still kept my tenant's rent under market value so they appreciate I am still being reasonable and if they move to a new property the rental rise they experience will likely feel significant and they will appreciate the arrangement they have with me. They are also now expecting an annual rise and we are all on the same page.

You may have made your decision now, but I tell my tenants when they first move in that I am supplying all white goods initially, but if any break, replacement is down to them. My tenants replaced the cooker a few months ago and the washer-dryer a couple of years ago.

Seriously??? Where I live a cooker (we don't actually call them that) is part of the fixtures and fittings and if one needs replacing it is up to the landlord to do it, unless the tenant has done something drastic (like take to it with an axe!).

I sort of thought that a cooker was the bare minimum that a tenant could expect, when we rented there were no properties without one, so I thought this might be a legal thing, unsure now though. Maybe it's just because most cookers these days seem to be built-in. We had moved from a house we owned so had our other white goods to bring.

Most tenants may not own them though, and with frequent moves it can be a bit of a pain to lug them around, as pps have said. I do think it's better if the landlord provides, it makes the rental more attractive surely? Can't you get extended warranties on them, just as an owner/occupier would?

I'm sorry, but I find it petty to make the tenant get their own replacements, I hope they're aware that the white goods are their property and should be taken when they leave. More greedy landlordism. Just think about how privileged you are.

How much did you pay for the oven? Our landlord replaced our oven with a very cheap, very basic oven. I Googled it and the reviews say it will probably last 5 years max.

Exactly! Everyone always says buy cheap for tennants because they break things. It's more the other way around. Goods don't last because cheap stuff is provided.

We look after our house/white goods, but everything provided is the cheapest the LL can find, so after a while it stops working. I HATE it when white goods are carted off to be dumped after such a short amount of time. It's terrible for the environment. I also hate money being wasted...even if it's not mine.

It becomes a Self-fulfilling prophecy doesn’t it.

I watched a homes under the hammer years ago. Agent goes round at the end
“welllll the kitchens ok for renting but it’s not a good enough quality to sell with”

what.

so shit kitchens are ok for people to put up with, but not for people who own it??

nothing like being made to feel like a second class citizen that doesn’t deserve decent stuff.

anyway when my different landlords cheap shit has inevitably broken and it’s beyond repair I’ve replaced it with second hand decent stuff. I have to use it and live with it at the end of the day.

I have my own cooker, fridge freezer, tumble dryer, dishwasher and washing machine.

it’s cost me a fortune storing bits over the years as some is built in, some isn’t.