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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ask tenant to replace cooker she's ruined?

249 replies

MacarenaMacarena · 30/06/2023 09:16

4 years ago tenant moved into my flat. I provided a new cooker for her. It's now not working. On closer inspection, she has used it a lot (fair!) but never cleaned it (disappointing), damage from her treatment of it is what has damaged it.
She needs another one.
But I don't really think this is reasonable wear and tear - more neglect and abuse.
Reasonable inspections and checks have been carried out regularly, compulsive gas safety checks have been done.
If she moved out tomorrow I could deduct at least part of the replacement cost from her deposit, but as she's staying, what would be a fair way forward?

OP posts:
qazxc · 30/06/2023 12:11

To ask her to pay for a replacement, you would have to prove that she broke it. Not worth the money, time.
Cheaper to just replace.

Watchinghurling · 30/06/2023 12:11

It's your responsibility as landlord to provide a usable oven. I think four years is quite reasonable for an appliance.

Mummyoflittledragon · 30/06/2023 12:21

Another landlord saying just replace it. Ovens / cookers pack up. That’s life. My NEFF appliances at home are going strong after 12 years but I don’t buy such high end stuff for rentals.

As for those criticising not leaving washing machines and fridge freezers in rental accommodation. When I became a ll about 25 years ago, it was standard to leave a fridge freezer and curtains in unfurnished accommodation, not washing machines though.

Tenancies these days in my experience are much longer than previously. Tenants seem to prefer their own stuff and want their own creature comforts rather than the relatively cheap FF I would provide. As a result I stopped including these within in the last decade. I only have one property with a ff that I own as the tenants are pretty long term.

Hunkydory99 · 30/06/2023 12:22

If it’s condition wasn’t flagged on the annual inspections I don’t think it’s fair now to look to place blame. I’d buy as similar one to the one they have now - eg ceramic if ceramic or gas but a low spec of the same type.

TonTonMacoute · 30/06/2023 12:26

Another landlord here, you should replace it.

SusiePevensie · 30/06/2023 12:28

Pay for the replacement yourself - it's tax deductible anyway.

Emotionalsupportviper · 30/06/2023 12:31

CindersAgain · 30/06/2023 09:21

I was wondering that too. I’m not a great cleaner of our oven and it’s fine.

Same here.

I tend to clean mine when it is so minging that when I put it on to warm up it smells as though there's a full roast dinner in there.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 30/06/2023 12:34

MidnightMeltdown · 30/06/2023 10:36

Fucking hell I'm surprised that you manage to find any tenants. Who wants to lug white goods from house to house while renting?

No wonder landlords have such a bad reputation

I do. I own my own washer, dryer, fridge freezer and another small freezer. No dishwasher. I chose a tumble dryer for that space instead.

Cookers are usually built in but I did have to buy one once.

This is pretty standard in unfurnished rentals these days IME.

CoralBells · 30/06/2023 12:37

Throwncrumbs · 30/06/2023 11:34

Lol perhaps the poor tenants ought to buy their own property if it’s so hard to move belongings. I can’t believe people think poor tenants don’t want to be lugging white goods around. What do you think real grown up adults who own and move do? I’m surprised the bloody landlords don’t go round daily and wipe the arses of their totally useless tenants ffs!

Well I'm a home owner and I wait until something breaks, then get a new one delivered and the old one taken away. I'd not have wanted to be lugging washing machines from place to place when I was renting. Thankfully white goods were provided by the (decent) landlords back then.
Re "the tenants should buy their own property" that just shows ignorance of how unaffordable property has become for younger people or anyone locked out of owning for other reasons.

itsmylife7 · 30/06/2023 12:38

Explain how never cleaning a hob or oven stops it working.
I've seen some disgusting cookers but they've all worked.

CoralBells · 30/06/2023 12:39

CoralBells · 30/06/2023 12:37

Well I'm a home owner and I wait until something breaks, then get a new one delivered and the old one taken away. I'd not have wanted to be lugging washing machines from place to place when I was renting. Thankfully white goods were provided by the (decent) landlords back then.
Re "the tenants should buy their own property" that just shows ignorance of how unaffordable property has become for younger people or anyone locked out of owning for other reasons.

And as for calling people who own "real grown up adults" and renters as useless, that just shows you up as a vile person.

bussteward · 30/06/2023 12:40

Deathbyfluffy · 30/06/2023 09:23

Surely taking care of white goods is an implied term?
OP if you do replace it, grab a 2nd hand one off Gumtree for £20.

What’s an implied term? An unwritten assumption that doesn’t make it into the contract so has no legal bearing?

Redburnett · 30/06/2023 12:40

Sounds like normal wear and tear to me, so you should replace it without charging your tenant anything.

Frabbits · 30/06/2023 12:47

TheCatterall · 30/06/2023 10:22

We no longer provide white goods etc @MacarenaMacarena due to tenants not taking care of them. We will leave one in if a previous tenant has left one but it’s made clear in contract that we will not replace them and it’s on them to take care of it or provide one themselves.

so when the fridge or washing machine etc left behind breaks - the tenant has to source another.

what’s in your tenancy agreement?

Wow, you sound like a great landlord.

Badbadbunny · 30/06/2023 12:54

My son's been looking for a flat to rent, and virtually all have included kitchen white goods, even the "unfurnished" ones.

Perhaps the difference is whether it's a family house or a single person's flat??

People looking for a one bed flat (or studio) are likely to be younger, single and more mobile so less likely to have any furniture at all, let alone white goods, and of course, it's pretty cheap and easy to buy a sofa, bed, table, etc which are easier to have delivered (especially flat pack stuff) and easier to move/dispose of at the end of the tenancy. White goods are a different matter - they cost more and are harder to move from one place to another, often needing plumbers/electricians to install/remove. DS has ignored the 1 or 2 fully unfurnished flats (i.e. with nothing in the kitchen) due to the cost, inconvenience etc of buying and fitting them, though he's happy to source bed, sofa, table, etc himself.

Families etc wanting a house or larger flat are more likely to be older, have at least some furniture etc from previous homes, maybe even a full house worth of furniture/white goods.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 30/06/2023 12:59

I’d say that makes a big difference @Badbadbunny - also where people are moving from makes a difference as well.

I give tenants the choice if they want white goods or not and in the last 10 years all have either said no, they’d prefer to bring their own or have opted to have them, but they’ve bought their own as things needed replaced so they have stuff when they move.

The only thing I insist on is that I pay for the electrician who fits the cooker and the plumber who does the washing machine. It means that if there are any issues it’s much easier with my insurance as I can prove it was all done properly (one is a second floor flat so a leaky washing machine could do a lot of damage and the last time I experience that the leak was the plumbers error!).

ReachForTheMars · 30/06/2023 13:00
  1. How do you know it's her treatment of it?
  2. If you aren't planning to throw her out you can expect it to happen again
  3. If you dont throw her out I think its awkward to try and make her pay unless it is indisputably her own fault and even then do want professional advice on leaving a tenant without a cooker, their fault or not.

IMO you've had 4 years of use for something which, it wou worked it out in months, is a negligible cost and and expected part of the cost of doing business. If you are that bothered but wont throw her out then you need to just pay and get over it.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 30/06/2023 13:02

ReachForTheMars · 30/06/2023 13:00

  1. How do you know it's her treatment of it?
  2. If you aren't planning to throw her out you can expect it to happen again
  3. If you dont throw her out I think its awkward to try and make her pay unless it is indisputably her own fault and even then do want professional advice on leaving a tenant without a cooker, their fault or not.

IMO you've had 4 years of use for something which, it wou worked it out in months, is a negligible cost and and expected part of the cost of doing business. If you are that bothered but wont throw her out then you need to just pay and get over it.

The OP can’t “throw out” her tenant because the cooker stopped working

LadyInBread · 30/06/2023 13:07

What was the warranty period on it? That'll tell you, basically, how long the manufacturer expects it to last without fault.

If it's already lasted longer than the manufactuer thinks it should, then I think you'll have to chalk this up to wear and tear.

ChaoticCrumble · 30/06/2023 13:12

We bought a brand new oven from Ikea that stopped working in a year - got a replacement, stopped working within a year.

I'd replace.

JanesBlond · 30/06/2023 13:15

LadyInBread · 30/06/2023 13:07

What was the warranty period on it? That'll tell you, basically, how long the manufacturer expects it to last without fault.

If it's already lasted longer than the manufactuer thinks it should, then I think you'll have to chalk this up to wear and tear.

I don’t think a standard 2 year warranty means the manufacturer expects your oven to only last 2 years - that would be ridiculous. I think it’s more that the warranty period is long enough for any manufacturing defects to be discovered.

Sewannoying · 30/06/2023 13:22

bussteward · 30/06/2023 12:40

What’s an implied term? An unwritten assumption that doesn’t make it into the contract so has no legal bearing?

Actually, implied terms are a real thing. Not all terms have to be written in the contract and terms can be implied into the contract by statute, custom or case law.

GrinAndVomit · 30/06/2023 13:24

We just bought a house. It’s 20 years old and had the same oven since then. I don’t think it had been cleaned very often in those 20 years.
The oven still worked.

We replaced it because I couldn’t get it clean.

Lemonclub88 · 30/06/2023 13:26

I dunno OP, the tenant has been paying you rent each month for four years. That Surely you could possibly spare £200 so that the poor woman can have some hot food?

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