Page 22 | AIBU to say private school children are much sportier & better musicians?

Denimrevival · 2023-06-29T10:43:00+00:00

Just on the back of comparing with friends & family with dc in private schools. The kids & their families are all naturally sporty & outdoorsy anyways but the school provides a vast range of sports with it's own pool & swim team. Musically their kids all play 2 or three instruments all at least grade 4 or 5.. How do these private schools do the academics, music & sports to such a high standard? Do they also have a very good base if the kids are having sport & music reinforced outside school through their families lifestyles?

GodessOfThunder · 30/06/2023 22:42

Goldenbear · 30/06/2023 21:43

Please quote me where I have referenced rap and grime. I don't have any snobby perceptions of them like you but I equally have not even used those words. I listed Hip hop, drum and bass, indie and rock not one mention of grime or rap. You are under the impression that these are all the same things, I wonder why that is?

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Probs because they don’t really know anything about music but are impressed by someone saying their kid got grade x on some instrument they’ll probably never pick up again once they leave school.

I’ve made a few records myself. Some were rather critically acclaimed and sold well. I have no grades, can’t “play” in the conventional sense, and did not go to private school.

Xenia · 30/06/2023 22:47

Live and let live. I actively chose to pay school fees from 5 - 18 (and university fees) as did my parents - our choice. Other people don't. I am not very sporty but we are quite a musical family and some of the children are keen on sports. It is complicated in the SE as there are also some fairly good state schools too but even in those you tend to find the private schools are better at things like music. It was hammered home to me when my sons' prep school with 3 local state schools teamed up for music outside at some Christmas lights turn on locally. There was a vast difference between the choirs which seemed a bit strange to me as the voice is free of charge and if you are good at it usually just means you have worked very hard on it rather than needing money but it may just be the teachers work shorter hours in state schools

Terryer · 30/06/2023 22:52

Probs because they don’t really know anything about music but are impressed by someone saying their kid got grade x on some instrument they’ll probably never pick up again once they leave school

I spent the day with private school parents today - end of term. Some of them were brayingly loud and a bit annoying, but I can honestly say none were as up themselves as some posters on this thread 😅

Goldenbear · 30/06/2023 23:15

Another76543 · 30/06/2023 22:00

My parents were the Beat generation and active young socialists, they protested and strived for education for all

You’ve stated more than once that you attended private school yourself at some point in your life. So, your parents were active socialists who strived for education for all whilst sending their own child to a private school.

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My Mum had to work full time when I was two years old, the private school let me sit in the classroom whilst she taught and then I went to the nursery so it was very very cheap. My Dad hated the idea, hence me leaving at 12!

NameChangeThreeThousand · 30/06/2023 23:16

StellaJohanna · 30/06/2023 22:28

It's a business. People send their kids to private schools and pay a lot of money because they want their children to have the advantage over other children socially as well as academically. For example, people who can play several musical instruments are more interesting people than those who can't. They are also more disciplined. Private schools teach children to lead and state schools teach children to follow orders. It is qualitatively different.

people who can play several musical instruments are more interesting people than those who can't. They are also more disciplined

I don't really agree. Some of the most interesting people I know left the local comp at 14 having never laid a finger on an instrument. That's not to say I don't also know some interesting and lovely people who play instruments! But playing a instrument does not make you more interesting than people that don't play. One of the most interesting people I've ever met had no education, never even touched an instrument, spent time in prison and the only time he'd been near a private school was to spray it with graffiti in his teens!

More disciplined? Again, playing an instrument as a kid might help with discipline (all that practice you have to do!) But kids and adults who don't play instruments are not necessarily less disciplined than those that do (did). Both my DC are tone deaf, yet are still v disciplined! They learnt discipline through sport, through study, through being parented.

Goldenbear · 30/06/2023 23:32

StellaJohanna · 30/06/2023 22:28

It's a business. People send their kids to private schools and pay a lot of money because they want their children to have the advantage over other children socially as well as academically. For example, people who can play several musical instruments are more interesting people than those who can't. They are also more disciplined. Private schools teach children to lead and state schools teach children to follow orders. It is qualitatively different.

What bollocks you talk and actually your private school advantage is going to bite you in the arse in many jobs now as unfortunately for you, the plebs have been allowed to take up positions where they are recruiting these kids. "Does this person in front of me actually have any talent?" I am sorry but you cannot teach Charisma however many notes you dish out for an education. Does the person have any 'original thoughts' whose creativity will give us a competitive advantage. Oh no they don't as they all think the same, act the same and have no idea of the diversity of the general public.

Goldenbear · 30/06/2023 23:41

GodessOfThunder · 30/06/2023 22:42

Probs because they don’t really know anything about music but are impressed by someone saying their kid got grade x on some instrument they’ll probably never pick up again once they leave school.

I’ve made a few records myself. Some were rather critically acclaimed and sold well. I have no grades, can’t “play” in the conventional sense, and did not go to private school.

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Yes, the evident lack of knowledge of musical genres confirms that private schools really can't be 'better' at music.

Raspberrysins · 01/07/2023 00:11

I’m a teacher at a private school (state for many years before that). I can say that yes, on average the students are more musical and sporty. For example it blows me away that boys sing in choirs, that would never have happened at my old school. A lot is down to the school day being much longer. We finish at 4 and lunch is 1h 10. Meaning lots of music and sports take place at that time. It’s also quite a ‘middle class’ thing to learn instruments I think. Obvs there are costs involved with it too. Students there tend to be more competitive too

Creative34 · 01/07/2023 00:19

SleeplessinScarbourough · 29/06/2023 12:00

It’s because their parents think they are better than everyone else and they impart that expectation upon their children who by the time they are 11, also think they are better than everyone else - expecting crowds to part for them, expecting traffic to stop for them, celebrating the misfortune of others if it benefits them and pretending the common folk don’t exist.

Someone’s bitter about private school 😂😂😂

How can you tell what these parents and children are thinking and expecting? I’m guessing you picked up those powers on your non private school journey.

XelaM · 01/07/2023 00:29

Goldenbear · 30/06/2023 20:58

Even if you live in an expensive area there is social housing and flat that are rented out to a family of 4 for 2 bedrooms. DH designs housing in the most expensive parts of London and the proportion has to be social housing. Outside of London that situation is probably more favourable. If you are referencing primary school, yes, catchments are small but secondary is not the same. I live in a leafy area and my DC go to an oversubscribed state secondary comprehensive, there are many people that are not affluent and they intake is far and wide.

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🙄 Several of my daughter's friends are at state grammar schools - DAO and Latiner. These families are WAY wealthier than us, live in massive houses in much nicer areas than we do. Some of these families have up to 5 properties. My daughter couldn't even sit the exam for DAO as our postcode wasn't good enough for them 🤪 I'm a single working mum paying extortionate private school fees not because we are in any way superior but because our state options are awful by virtue of living in a crappy area. Are my daughter's "state school" friends facing terrible adversity while she's living it up with Royalty? Errr.. no.

XelaM · 01/07/2023 00:31

Latymer*

whodawhodaeho · 01/07/2023 00:38

‘For example it blows me away that boys sing in choirs, that would never have happened at my old school. ‘

sorry, but was your previous school from the 1950s???? FFS.
amazing though it may seem to some, state schools do have music for boys and sport for girls…

Georgeandzippyzoo · 01/07/2023 01:31

Denimrevival · 29/06/2023 11:55

@JoWawa is that something they should be looked at in state schools so more enrichment can be offered to close the gap?

Won't make a difference because the funding for our state schools is abysmal (one reason for the current strikes). Most primary schools I know have a range of sports equipment bought using the sainsburys vouchers because its not in schools budgets to actually replace / buy new !

weareallout · 01/07/2023 01:35

Oh ffs.
Money
Stare schools accommodate everyone one and operate on a shoestring. Lunchtimes are short ' after-school stuff has to be run by teachers for free. Private is miles off that

Manthide · 01/07/2023 05:03

JoWawa · 29/06/2023 11:53

Private school days tend to be longer.

And my son's private school also had school on Saturday morning

Manthide · 01/07/2023 05:12

EctopicSpleen · 30/06/2023 21:17

in sport, they are certainly better at Eton fives, much better at lawn tennis and very much better at polo. in fact when you're a state school kid and busy clapping the half-coconuts together because you don't have a horse, it is a bit hard to hit the ball at the same time.
It is not just sports and music but also languages. Because you might actually be taught more than one. And classics. Again, because you might be taught some.
For music, private school kids are much better at singing the school song. Firstly because it is likely to be in Latin (see classics above) and secondly because your school might have one. State school kids just have to hum.
Seriously, what do people expect? That pouring expert tuition and resources into specific areas, perhaps from as early as the age of 4, would have no effect?

The school song bit made me laugh. Ds has an awful voice but loved the sound of it and really enjoyed having to sing the school song. There were also house singing competitions that were very competitive ( boys school).

grass321 · 01/07/2023 05:16

Why does it matter if they excel at sports and music? Does it mean they will have a more fulfilling life or does it just enable the parents to show off their children’s achievements to their friends? Why put all the pressure on children to have to play multiple instruments and compete at a higher level?

According to our head, there's a strong correlation between those pupils that invest a lot of time in sport and music, and academic grades. May not lead to a more fulfilling life, further to your point, but could do if those grades open new doors.

Honestly, part of me feels a bit resentful of the weekends we've given up ferrying our kids around the country to sports matches. And the cost of equipment and training schemes. It's not for our benefit, although I (mostly...) enjoy watching them play matches. My kids are sports scholars but it's not something I mention to my friends, nor any other sporting achievements.

We've made that commitment because sport is a passion for our children. It provides a break from their academic study, it's healthy and they enjoy the team element. As they get older, they have the opportunity to mentor younger players, as adults have done for them. Plus the discipline needed to play sport at a higher level. All their choice and if they've stopped enjoying a particular sport, we've been happy to support their decision to leave programmes.

Bookonthebeach · 01/07/2023 05:48

I teach in a private school and have taught in a state school. The advantage of private schools is that they have specialist music and sport teachers who themselves play or perform at a very high level, so can really help develop those skills in their pupils. In a state school, it is often the case that the child's teacher will teach them for every subject from maths to languages to music. Nobody can be good at everything and so these teachers just have to muddle through and do the best they can. I found it very difficult when I don't play a sport or an instrument to teach the skills to others, particularly in classes of 30. Now I leave it to the professionals and stay in my academic lane! Small class sizes also certainly help hone in on developing each child's individual ability.

readingrocks · 01/07/2023 06:35

redbigbananafeet · 29/06/2023 14:05
Denimrevival · 29/06/2023 11:55

@JoWawa is that something they should be looked at in state schools so more enrichment can be offered to close the gap?
And where does the money go fund that come from?

Well some money could come from lifting the charitable status that many independent schools have! They qualify for this if the school offers some public benefit but this is often a bit half-hearted in practice. Does your local independent school offer an hour's public swim a week? Does the local choir practice there an hour a week? That kind of thing...

WasJuliaRight · 01/07/2023 06:35

I dread to think how much my nephew’s education cost, he’s was never sporty, didn’t play any instruments, received mediocre GCSE grades and works as a gardener with one of his mates. He’s happy though.

Dorisbonson · 01/07/2023 06:37

Escapefromhell · 29/06/2023 11:51

Private school kids aren’t more sporty and better musicians. They have simply had all the opportunities.

This is just like saying that the GB Olympic team is better at dressage and sailing than Uganda’s.

What like parents who take their kids to swimming twice a week, tennis three times, football twice and rugby once? Parents make choices, some parents drive their kids everywhere for sport, do the laundry, buy the kit, some parents cook food from scratch and others don't.

Same parents make sure their kids do the homework set by school.

Unless you have absolutely zero spare cash there is nothing to stop anyone taking their kids to cheap sports clubs like Rugby and Football, plenty of free 2nd kit for both too. Cheap swimming may also be available through local authorities.

At the end of the day, you make choices and set examples. You can say it's cost, my son's prep school is cheap and teaching focused, it's sports facilities are awful, so we take him to other places to play sport.

Reugny · 01/07/2023 07:04

ChristmasFluff · 30/06/2023 21:44

Load of shite. Went to a 1970s comprehensive - actually, was its first year comp - was a secondary modern before that.

But we had music lessons - I have clarinet and descant recorder to grade 6, can do all the other recorders to grade 3. Credit where it's due, for all my mum's faults, she bought me a clarinet on the never-never when the school said I had an aptitude.

That's probs part of the problem. My dad was hugely musical, never had the chance to pursue itm but could pursue it through me. Not sure other families on the breadline would prioritise a clarinet.

So yeah - it's not the private school - it's the funding and the ability of parents to pay for an instrument.

We also had Latinlessons. Will always remember surprising some bloke in Cambridge cos the oik could read Latin. I get the feeling we were some kind of experiment that was meant to fail but didn't, so had to be stopped by the national curriculum.

I did Latin and the comp school I went to still boasts of teaching it today.

In regards to music lessons - in state schools provision is patchy and in my LA you have to pay for your child to do have lessons during school hours regardless of whether primary or secondary.

There as we're my DD is going to school they give them some free lessons on certain instruments in primary to see if they have the aptitude. The school also has a choir.

wizzyderbyshire · 01/07/2023 07:05

Nephew, by marriage, went to a top private school - somewhere in the region of £40,000 a year, and music lessons were at additional cost. We had a bit of a snoop on the school website - the sporting facilities alone were way superior to anything the vast majority of state schools could offer.
The school days were long, there were some lessons on, some, Saturday mornings and there were opportunities for enrichment in the evening.

At that level, it is a different world. He’s at Cambridge now.

Leastsaidsoonestscrewed · 01/07/2023 07:16

DH went to a very good public school and is tone deaf...

Libra24 · 01/07/2023 07:18

I think in part you answered your own question because you said the family values that are being shared already put an emphasis on sport and that is in and out of school.
But not only can they probably afford the private school but have been able to afford lots of additional enrichment up to this point in life and will continue to do so. Including music from a young age.

Entrance exams (which are often tutored for and tutoring continues once in the school) not only select the children but have an effect on who even tries to apply in terms of willingness to put their children through the rigors of high academic expectations. You may admire these children for the achievements now but did you want to/ afford to take your kids to music class / sports class / additional tutoring sessions for a few years to get to this point? My kids get upset about nursery... I can't imagine all this additional activity being part of our lives but some kids thrive in that way.

It's a shame there aren't more opportunities for state schools and funding is so poor but I feel there's enough pressure on kids to do well without it being my whole identity too. If my kids are kind and happy. Good people. That's my goal. Not saying these kids won't be of course, but they aren't better because they can play an instrument or run fast x