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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if anyone here actually thinks a step parents wage should be considered for CMS?

258 replies

TheSpoonAndTheFork · 28/06/2023 10:45

Because my husband's ex seems to think so and is currently enraged that I have zero plan or requirement to.

I'm fully aware that CMS do not take into account a SPs earnings and that legally she is not entitled to anything from my wages. I'm just curious as to whether more people think like her (entitled as imo) that they should take it into account.

YANBU - no it's right that CMS don't take into account a step parents earnings

YABU - they don't but they should.

OP posts:
funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:03

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:01

@funinthesun19 I don't really understand your post. Firstly you have to address the person whoever has gone on and created a second family. Surely?

Why have more children in the first place?

Well maybe they can afford to have more children, but it would be a struggle if the new partner pays towards maintenance? So just don’t pay towards the maintenance and have a baby instead. What do you not get?

Daleksatemyshed · 28/06/2023 14:05

Regardless of the ethics of making SP's pay CM , I could see it affecting a lot of relationships. A woman takes on a man with DC, he lives in her house and she's prepared to carry more of the financial load but then being asked to pay CM too? If it was only for married couples some of the high earning women would refuse to marry, if it was for partners too then would they just live apart?

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:07

@funinthesun19 your post is a contradiction within itself. The first set of kids need to be provided for still so if CMS is a "struggle" which is a bit piss poor considering the rates are low ultimately it means perhaps the person shouldn't of gone on to have more kids in the first place.

CadMan · 28/06/2023 14:08

Daleksatemyshed · 28/06/2023 14:05

Regardless of the ethics of making SP's pay CM , I could see it affecting a lot of relationships. A woman takes on a man with DC, he lives in her house and she's prepared to carry more of the financial load but then being asked to pay CM too? If it was only for married couples some of the high earning women would refuse to marry, if it was for partners too then would they just live apart?

Yes. And ultimately the children lose out, because their quality of life with their NRP is significantly lower than it would be if he remarried.

veryfluffyfluff · 28/06/2023 14:13

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:07

@funinthesun19 your post is a contradiction within itself. The first set of kids need to be provided for still so if CMS is a "struggle" which is a bit piss poor considering the rates are low ultimately it means perhaps the person shouldn't of gone on to have more kids in the first place.

The first kids do not trump the child of the new family.

Once a child exists it is pretty cruel and nasty to be saying it shouldn't.

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:16

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:07

@funinthesun19 your post is a contradiction within itself. The first set of kids need to be provided for still so if CMS is a "struggle" which is a bit piss poor considering the rates are low ultimately it means perhaps the person shouldn't of gone on to have more kids in the first place.

I’m not contradicting myself. Where did I say in this example that the NRP is struggling to pay it? I didn’t. You’re making that bit up. I’m saying that that household shouldn’t have less and then struggle by the partner topping it up.

Daleksatemyshed · 28/06/2023 14:17

@CadMan yes, if Dad left the marriage without much money he's not going to be to buy a place to see the DC, his CM goes up if he can't do overnights and Mum never gets a break. Different of course if he earns really well

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:19

@veryfluffyfluff the 1st family's needs needs aren't trumped though and I know this is uncomfortable for you to hear but it is true the question OP is asking. Other women shouldn't be paying for other people's kids despite being a higher/lower earners.

People going on to create more kids whilst the 1st family is left for mum to support the household solely. Trumping needs? Hardly because 2 incomes and 2 people able to juggle childcare between them is harding trumping the new family's needs.

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:25

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:03

Well maybe they can afford to have more children, but it would be a struggle if the new partner pays towards maintenance? So just don’t pay towards the maintenance and have a baby instead. What do you not get?

You've just said maybe they can afford to have kids but it would be a struggle if the new partner pays towards maintainance. If you are referring to the woman no she shouldn't pay so perhaps I misunderstood your wording however the BIO parent absolutely needs to pay for his children.

Whendoesmydietstart · 28/06/2023 14:26

I don't think it should be a factor, although I do believe the maintenance an absent parent pays should reflect their lifestyle. If you are living the life of a millionaire on the purse strings of your spouse, but earning zero yourself, then you must surely still be made to pay maintenance for your children. With childhood poverty rising I think perhaps the household income of the absent parent should be considered. If he doesn't work then the step parent needs to kick his lazy arse into check.

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:28

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:19

@veryfluffyfluff the 1st family's needs needs aren't trumped though and I know this is uncomfortable for you to hear but it is true the question OP is asking. Other women shouldn't be paying for other people's kids despite being a higher/lower earners.

People going on to create more kids whilst the 1st family is left for mum to support the household solely. Trumping needs? Hardly because 2 incomes and 2 people able to juggle childcare between them is harding trumping the new family's needs.

I’m a single mum of 4, receive the grand sum of £0.00 in maintenance for my children and they barely stay over with their dad.

And even I still think NRPs need enough money to provide a home for their children to come and stay with them. Surely that’s just common sense? If my ex was to magically start paying maintenance and start having his children, I’d want him to have enough for them to be comfortable and happy when with him. So it would make no sense to take a high percentage of his household income either from him alone or from a new partner.

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:29

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:25

You've just said maybe they can afford to have kids but it would be a struggle if the new partner pays towards maintainance. If you are referring to the woman no she shouldn't pay so perhaps I misunderstood your wording however the BIO parent absolutely needs to pay for his children.

Yes I was on about the new partner. And yes of course a bio parent should provide for their children. Never disputed that for one second.

Emotionalstorm · 28/06/2023 14:31

You're all mighty generous on this thread. If I ever remarried and had step kids they are not getting a penny of my money or my inheritance and my parents are totally on board with this. Everything I have leftover will go to my biological daughter.

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:36

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:28

I’m a single mum of 4, receive the grand sum of £0.00 in maintenance for my children and they barely stay over with their dad.

And even I still think NRPs need enough money to provide a home for their children to come and stay with them. Surely that’s just common sense? If my ex was to magically start paying maintenance and start having his children, I’d want him to have enough for them to be comfortable and happy when with him. So it would make no sense to take a high percentage of his household income either from him alone or from a new partner.

One fellow single mum to another. I'm not against you. Where did you read percent? I never suggested to take a high percentage at all I said was that when people go on to have more kids finances should be considered 1st. CMS takes a small percent anyway they don't take that much at all. I get around £270 per month for 1 DC.

DS dad lives perfectly fine.... he just has the 1 child with me currently. I think what's getting lost in translation is if DS dad goes on to have more kids to another woman why the hell should me and DS suffer? I'm already picking up the slack as a single mother running a household and covering all childcare during the week, school holidays and so on. I know it's sounds harsh it's nothing personal but I struggle to have empathy for DS dad if he came to me saying this BS I'm sorry.

TheGoddessFreyja · 28/06/2023 14:50

I used to happily contribute when DSS was younger and would stay at ours weekends and more so when he came to live with us when the cow kicked him out when they had clashed as he got older, as soon as we then applied for CMS she wanted him back 🙄 not that she paid a penny anyway. She'd have LOVED to get her hands on my money 🤣🤣

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:56

Gytgyt · 28/06/2023 14:36

One fellow single mum to another. I'm not against you. Where did you read percent? I never suggested to take a high percentage at all I said was that when people go on to have more kids finances should be considered 1st. CMS takes a small percent anyway they don't take that much at all. I get around £270 per month for 1 DC.

DS dad lives perfectly fine.... he just has the 1 child with me currently. I think what's getting lost in translation is if DS dad goes on to have more kids to another woman why the hell should me and DS suffer? I'm already picking up the slack as a single mother running a household and covering all childcare during the week, school holidays and so on. I know it's sounds harsh it's nothing personal but I struggle to have empathy for DS dad if he came to me saying this BS I'm sorry.

You and your kids shouldn’t suffer at all, but if he carries on paying the same amount of maintenance after having another baby, how would he be doing anything wrong? It’s when he starts trying to reduce the amount, that’s when he would be in the wrong. Increasing the amount depends heavily on whether he can reasonably afford it while providing a home for his child too.

I don’t agree maintenance should go down after having another child. Or when the NRP meets a new partner with children. Or when he says he can’t afford it because he has another child. I agree with you on all of those points.

My post really was focused highly on the new partner. That if she uses her money to top the maintenance up either directly or indirectly, don’t be surprised if that household then complains about being worse off.

MsRosley · 28/06/2023 14:57

Had a friend in this position. Her ex was a SAHD who refused to work even when the kids were older. Despite the kids living with her and her new partner half the week, he swung it that he got all the govt child support while she paid for everything her kids needed. She didn't earn much and when she married her partner, who was on quite a high income, her ex got the CMS to investigate and ask about her new husband's income. She refused to disclose it, because she felt there was no way her ex should sit on his arse and profit from her new husband's hard work, plus he had his own kids to maintain.

Resilience · 28/06/2023 14:57

I think new partner incomes should be largely irrelevant. I mostly think this because it encourages the abdication of responsibility by the actual parents but also IMO it impacts women negatively given that 84% of single parents are women (ONS, 2022).

Any time you adjust maintenance paid by the NRP (usually a male) because the RP (usually a female) has a new partner you are essentially classing the RP as a dependent person, or less charitably a chattel. That has a nasty tendency of leaving women and children vulnerable. Even in a gender-neutral situation it has the effect of transferring daily costs responsibility from one of the actual parents to the new partner. Why should someone else pick up the tab for the actual parents choice to parent separately? In an ideal world a loving step-parent will do this willingly but it encourages at least one parent to not think of the child as their problem any more.

Any time you adjust the maintenance paid by a NRP because they themselves have a new partner, you are usually devaluing the first family (if contributions go down). What message does that send about responsibility for children you've produced? That their value is only worth full price when the parents are together?

Children should remain the full responsibility of both their parents until they are 18. The costs (financial, practical and emotional) should be 50/50 throughout that time. The cost of childcare should be included and there should be no escape.

Non-resident parents should not have the option of voluntarily becoming unemployed to avoid paying anything. If that's a choice they want to make to suit a second family, then the other parent in the new family has a choice to make about whether or not they are willing to pay their partner's maintenance for them. Sometimes it will be worth it, sometimes not. Either way, responsibility to children already present doesn't change because they've become inconvenient for the currently preferred lifestyle. A resident parent can't easily go off and travel the world because they've got dependent DC. It's no different. Children change things for at least 18 years after having them! This is why people should not move in together when one or more of them have DC already unless and until they've been together long enough to have an adult conversation about what that really means. Love does not conquer all!

For every tale on here of NRPs paying through the nose while the other parent lives it up on their money, there are many many more lone parents getting zero or pittance maintenance.

If more parents were actually held to this, I suspect we'd see much more effort made at effective contraception, fewer separations in the first place, and fewer dysfunctional second families (the current social and financial set-up in the UK encourages financial entanglement of blended families at far too early a stage).

No one has a crystal ball and circumstances can change, but too many parents (usually but not exclusively fathers) feel able to procreate but abdicate financial responsibility once their interest in the other parent has waned.

funinthesun19 · 28/06/2023 14:58

Increasing the amount depends heavily on whether he can reasonably afford it while providing a home for his child too.

BUT, in saying that. Cut backs on his own luxuries can be made. Increasing it should impact on him only, and not his partner and other children.

namechangenacy · 28/06/2023 14:59

Not a chance.

CadMan · 28/06/2023 15:02

One line that’s often brought up is NRPs becoming SAHPs for their second family so they don’t have to pay CMS. Surely this is pretty rare if the NRP is a high earner and paying routinely, and is more likely if they just can’t afford childcare?

In my experience, high earners with decent careers only become SAHPs in extreme circumstances such as having unexpected multiple births, illness or temporary job loss, and it’s almost always the woman who gives up work if there’s any choice in the matter.

I’d like to think in that scenario I’d ensure the same amount of CM was paid as before, but if it really came to it, I’d be keeping the roof above my own family’s heads (including SC when they were with us) over paying my partner’s ex money we weren’t legally obliged to.

Sometimes shit happens, and if you’re relying on another household, it’s more likely to happen.

BigFatLiar · 28/06/2023 15:03

Emotionalstorm · 28/06/2023 14:31

You're all mighty generous on this thread. If I ever remarried and had step kids they are not getting a penny of my money or my inheritance and my parents are totally on board with this. Everything I have leftover will go to my biological daughter.

A fairly standard view on here. Each of you ring fence what's yours for your bio children. Seperate finances with contributions to run the household and the excess is your own.

Yousee · 28/06/2023 15:20

My DSD already costs me personally a small fortune in additional housing, motoring, food etc costs. Which is fine, I do consider her jointly my responsibility when it comes to making my family and home work.
But no, I don't think it's my responsibility to also fund her in her mums house.
Nor is it my responsibility to leave her an inheritance.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 28/06/2023 15:27

I do think it should be if they are married. Works both ways though. The fact CMS can reduce if NRP moves in with children unrelated to them then it should be taken into account.

putthatdownsteve · 28/06/2023 15:30

BigFatLiar · 28/06/2023 15:03

A fairly standard view on here. Each of you ring fence what's yours for your bio children. Seperate finances with contributions to run the household and the excess is your own.

I think it’s very personal thing for inheritances.

I married my now dh when ds was 9. He loves him like he’s his own biological child, ds is 20 now and they are so close.

We have two children together and he’s never treated ds any differently to them. I’ve been a sahm and dh has always supported us all.

Dh’s will leaves everything split between the 3 children equally. Even his parents have provided for my ds equally in their wills.