To tell DD to be careful talking about her body issues

[year12clueless]

I really don't know how to handle this. DD 17 is an objectively extremely attractive girl. 5'4, size 4, curves, blonde hair, green eyes. Skin good, very sporty. I'm not just saying she's attractive because I'm her mum- she's also done some petite size modelling so fits conventional beauty standards.

She's had a difficult few years. A late ADHD diagnosis and trials with medicating left her at one stage very thin (6.5 stone) and anxious and there was a self harm incident so I treat her mental health very carefully. We got her to talk to a therapist whilst all this was happening and the therapist also flagged she had moderate body dysmorphia- what other people see when they look at her isn't what she sees.

She can list (exhaustively) a list of "flaws" that no one else can see- chubby cheeks, weirdly shaped teeth, short torso, stubby fingers etc etc. The thing is, she complains to her friends about this, and posts pics of her (in the group chat they have to discuss what they're wearing) dissecting how rubbish she looks- when objectively she's looking lovely.

This has begun to annoy her friends and I absolutely understand why. It's very hard to feel sympathetic when a size 4 is telling you she feels chunky. They don't really understand the body dysmorphia and it just seems like she's fishing for compliments. They don't see her hysterical after trying on 15 prom dresses that make her look "awful" in all of them- they just see someone complaining unnecessarily.

One of her friends recently asked her to stop criticising how she looks as it was upsetting her. DD was really upset as she thinks she can't now be herself with her friends, but I've told her that whilst what she has is real, its incredibly hard for people who aren't her mum to feel sympathetic towards her, and perhaps a collection of other teen girls aren't the best support for this. I suggested she tone it down, stop talking to her friends about what she's wearing/ looking like, talk to me about her worries if she needs to but to also try to accept that objectively she's very pretty and to try to understand what people see.

She's a bit upset with me as she says it sounds like I'm telling her to pull herself together and get over it. Which I think I am in a way but I've tried to be kind. Honestly I sympathise with her friends a bit- it's hard listening to someone fretting about non existent body flaws.

Anyone with any experience in this who can help? Should I have kept quiet and let her carry on sharing with her friends?

Yes she has to stop criticising herself to her friends. It's getting them down. Yes she feels sad, but her friends aren't the people to hear it. If your daughter's beautiful and they're average, then this complaining is going to make them feel sad about their own appearance. E.g. she thinks she's ugly, well I'm more ugly then her. Tell her to message you instead and talk about it in counselling. Perhaps she need to understand other people's perspectives. Be nice for them all to stay friends.

I have been in this position and ultimately ruined my 20s and 30s by starving myself, having low self esteem which led to a marriage wholly unsuitable, no real career and a lot of woe. It takes a lot of time and effort to get out of it. I wonder if you could show your DD this post.

When I was 17, I had the world at my feet. My body was developing into a 'model' figure very much like yours. Yet, I had been badly bullied and felt ugly, like no one wanted me and that I had nothing to offer to the world.

I wrote extensively online about my problems and fell victim to very strange older men who did not want to help me, only see me naked and have sex with me.

I settled for the very first man who was interested in me during my early 20s. Luckily for me he was able to support me, yet I didn't love him as much as I should have because I knew deep down that he wasn't really right. I ruined his life too and deprived him of the love he deserved.

I starved myself to just six stone from the ages of 18 to 38. My boobs disappeared, my cheeks and eyes grew sunken, droopy lines appeared round my cheeks. I resorted to fillers.

I had my hair dyed and cut very short too short for my frame. I looked like a teenage boy pretending to be a schoolgirl.

Because I was starving myself, I couldn't think straight. I failed at work, I slept all the time and had horrible tantrum, all of which added to my self esteem and body image problems. I still wrote excessively online and encountered the same awful men and criticism from others who thought I was fat shaming them.

In the end, after being more or less forced to go out to work after 9 years by my ex, I woke up. All around me I saw beautiful, confident women. One of whom said quite pointedly, "its strange how some men like very skinny women, why would you deny yourself food?" She went on to describe that she was once very thin and realised she look awful.

I looked at myself in the mirror that night and cried. My arms were like matchsticks, my boobs were flat and my eyes were dull.

I ended up getting divorced and realising that men do not want a skinny, neurotic childwoman. More importantly, my child doesn't want that either. They need a strong and healthy mummy. Both physically and mentally.

I have gained two stone and counting so I get to normal bmi. I am still beautiful. I am able to go all day without falling asleep. I can find clothes that fit. My teeth are no longer wobbly. I don't need fillers. I also like how I look.

Please don't lay yourself open to hurt and criticism online and the inevitable vultures who may prey on you because you have maintained the body of a child.

The world is a huge place and you it all to explore. Do it and don't look inward.

My friend is very slim and pretty. She keeps going on about how she needs to lose weight. I can't talk to her as much anymore because I'm bigger than her, and it makes me feel shit. It feels like implicit judgement. So yeah, expect her friends to distance themselves if she keeps going on about it.

Can you just ask her what she thinks a friend that weighs more than her feels when she (your DD) posts about being chubby? This is basically saying the friend is fat.

I had anorexia and see myself as fat despite being a size 6 petite but I learned to be careful about how I phrase things when talking to friends for the reason above.

This is something I think you dealt with right. I'd be slightly the same (not as pretty sounding as your daughter) but people say I'm attractive and have always been quite slim naturally. Yet I'm very hard on myself and always have an internal moan about my weight, face etc. My mum was great and basically said the same thing. It taught me to consider that if I think I'm fat what does it suggest I think of my friends who are larger than me (who I think are gorgeous). This made me realise that I needed to be more considerate of others when voicing my opinion on myself. The good thing is age has helped. I probably did have body dysmorphia but now I'm older (30s) I realise this was shallow and there are much bigger problems. I also realise people have cancer and other horrible things going on with their bodies so to be fit and healthy is a genuine blessing. I hope this helps and also gives you hope, I found it got better for me. 17 is an age where everything is about appearance. People typically become a lot more well rounded as they age I think.

In the group chat they have in which to discuss what they're wearing.

I agree with this. I have an Adhd boy so his fishing for dopermine revolves around gaming, sugar and talking about gaming and knowing the most about gaming. For mine though he walks, a lot. If he’s walks 4 miles and taken his meds he is infinitely more pleasant than only doing one or the other or none. Roll on blackberry picking season as he’ll be walking even more 🤣

is she a heavy social media user? If she is the likes and comments and dopermine high can translate across to similar high from comments to her pictures from friends.

it would take time to wean the social media high into something more positive - strength training (not just weights!) has been show to help with dopermine regulation so perhaps that’s an area you could look into an get her into some sporty strength training classes like ju-jitsu. I’d be cautious about lifting as that community can also experience body dysmorphia and you’d want to avoid that if you can.

it might also have the benefit of seeing her own body not just as ‘needing to be attractive’ but also as strong, fit and capable and I’m sure if she’s hauling a bloke to the ground with a ju-jitsu move will be far more impressive to everyone including herself.

or you could try and get her hiking like my teen, I’m currently looking for a local walking group most are populated by over 50s and I actually thing that’s exactly what he needs.

Because he has BDD she won’t be able to channel that to herself until she has therapy, I have BDD and know the struggle, if she doesn’t talk about it the chances of an eating disorder or self harm are high.

Don't have much to say that hadn't already been said, but I had to comment and say (with teary eyes!) How lovely you sound and what a wonderful mum you are. Your daughter is so lucky. I have struggled with what I think is undiagnosed body dysmorphia since I can remember...my mum didn't help at all, instead she fed my insecurities. She made a joke out of my arms on my prom night, 16 years later I'm still so self conscious about my arms - so much so that I (a 31 year old woman!!) Cried on Saturday because I was wearing a sleeveless dress and felt so self conscious. I think I'd have been conscious of everything without her comments, but my god it made them worse.

I think the body dysmorphia and the fishing for comments or compliments are separate issues and don't need to go hand in hand. She doesn't have to solve the body image issues in order to reign in the comments about her looks to her friends. If you talk about them as separate issues you may get somewhere a bit quicker.

More therapy would definitely be good if you can stretch to it, or can you look into local therapy groups etc as a cheaper option? I know that SIL, who is a therapist, used to do group sessions so it's definitely a thing.

I'd also say that arguably, this discussion could be an opportunity for her to learn and accept herself. For example, a conversation where you say, "right, I know how YOU feel about your body, but let's talk about Amanda. Would you say that Amanda is less thin than you are? Yes? Okay, but do you think she's still attractive AND a nice person who you are happy to have as a friend? Yes. Okay, that's good. Now, ask yourself a few questions like, 'How does it make Amanda feel when you're calling yourself fat/ugly etc and you know she's bigger than you?' or 'If Amanda is attractive at a size 6, why do I think that I am less attractive at a size 4?' "

None of this will solve things I think, but I'd have thought that if you can get her thinking about other people it might help her to internalise her own issues? Having said that, I stand by that therapy is really necessary.

Good luck. It must be so hard.

One thing I wanted to add - the fact that she's slim and beautiful isn't really the key issue here. If she was a size 28, had three noses and was cross eyed but was constantly doing herself down to her friends to the point that they begged her to stop (presumably because it is starting to affect them quite badly), it would still be a problem.*

So please when you talk to your daughter don't make it about the fact that she is the slimmest/most beautiful and that's why it's difficult for her friends to cope with. It's the negativity and the way that feeds into a cycle of them worrying about her, worrying about themselves, comparing themselves to each other ("you look amazing in that, I'd look shit with my legs" etc) and so on.

Maybe she could also do with a reminder that she doesn't necessarily know what body image struggles her friends are enduring in private, and not just her friends but others around her too.

*Having said this I think you can still add as an extra point the objective truth that if she says she is fat at a size 4, her friends of larger sizes (i.e. probably all of them) WILL see it as an implied criticism of their size. She obviously doesn't mean it like that, but that will be how it comes across.

I must say that as long as I have known her, she has always had problems with men who are initially very attracted to her but get bored/tired of her low self-esteem. Just something to be aware of for the future

This is an extremely depressing comment.

'Listen DD, if you don't stop moaning about the way you look, in the future, men aren't going to like you' 🙄

Hopefully the OP's daughter will get some therapy that really helps with her issues, and will not be arsed what men think.

I know of a girl who was like this. Then she was in a horrible fire (at a party, lots of young people died) and her face and part of her body got severly burnt. She said she was looking at photos from only a year ago and could not believe how self obsessed she was and unhappy about how she looked. How immature she was.

Your dd seems to be stuck in the thought that how you look is what matters in life. But she will be the one with no friends and she will be unhappy. Hopefully she will grow out of this self obsession (but she is already 17 so she should have started to by now) or she will need proper help. You sound like a good mum to her though.

I've always had body dysmorphia (not helped by random men in the street throughout my life laughing at how ugly I am), however my mum was always the same too, constantly saying how she couldn't stand her own voice, her own face etc, "urgh, I look disgusting!"- she never, ever stopped. So I never voiced my own thoughts and was there as her personal sounding board and I got SICK of it. Thing is, no amount of telling a person they're beautiful/lovely how they are will ever be enough, even when you mean it. I understand where she's coming from, but it can be exhausting always having to listen someone go on and on and on about it, and then have to be the one to yet again reassure them constantly. It doesn't work. She needs to stop going on about it to her friends - it doesn't serve any purpose, it doesn't make her feel any better, and she;s not LISTENING to them when they tell her they can't see what she's seeing. So she needs to stop. She can come to you about it, but it's not fair to always lay this at their feet all the time.

Sounds like she gets her self-worth from her looks and the compliments she gets.

I would implore her to reframe this mindset as it will not serve her well in virtually any aspect of her life.

You say she is sporty - which sport? Is it team based? Could she get more confidence on being a good team player? Trying her best? I say 'team' as it takes the focus away from 'her' and seeing the bigger picture for team success.

I would definitely stop the modelling, this will only exacerbate her body issues.

I do remember years ago, an attractive 20 something colleague who went on and on about how fat she was (she was a size 2) - every single day. It really irritated many of the team as she was clearly fishing for compliments. I was asked to say something to her as her line manager.
I had a chat and said, 'Look you aren't overweight. You are closer to being underweight than overweight. You are an amazing young woman who is excellent at their job, please concentrate on this and not your weight. If you genuinely think you are overweight you need to see a Dr because this is factually incorrect'
I am not sure if the penny dropped at that moment, if it was the fact that I was a colleague - not a friend or relative; or because I was complimenting her work but essentially she stopped talking about it which was a relief TBH.

I think teens / young women have always done this (some worse than others like your DD) but social media / WhatsApp etc have magnified it 100%. It’s non-stop. I remember my best friend & me trying on (tiny) clothes in our bedroom mirrors, and in boutiques. We’d be pinching non-existent love handles & sucking up our peachy little bums. Can’t imagine the sheer tyranny of doing this all day long…

Whilst how she feels is valid (as in she can't help how she feels and of course you can be insecure even if you're the beauty ideal on paper) I agree that she shouldn't use her friends to talk about this with, they've been honest and open with her about how they feel and she should listen.

It sounds like DD needs some counselling to talk it through and hopefully put some of it to rest.

It is hard when a friend has issues, one of DD's friends has to repeatedly wash her hands, and will only eat food from specific places, so it makes it very hard to go on a day out with her, as she expects everyone to do what she wants.

agree.
but to other teenage girls, possibly (most likely) going through their own body issues and being as self-absorbed as teenagers can be it is exhausting to see a photo that looks lovely and have to "reassure" the person that they are gorgeous, look perfect etc etc

Especially, and this is crucial for teenage girls i think (maybe not just them) if they are getting nothing back. I went to boarding school in the late 70s early 80s and every one of us had some kind of self image problem that consumed us. Several with EDs and so on. Looking back? we spent a whole lot of time "reassuring" each other - not meaning a word of most of it. It was just automatic platitudes, while being eaten up with paying attention to our own flaws.

Do you know the other girls? Do they get compliments from your DD when they post pics? The group sounds toxic, but if they didn't have the group they'd just post elsewhere, or other groups.

That CBT crib sheet upthread is really good! I've bookmarked it for myself.

I had dysmorphic anorexia from 17 to around 25, but I shan't offer tips because the cultural landscape has changed a bit - and my 'journey' was a complicated one. I wish your DD a smoother & swifter arrival at comfortable self-love and untrammelled enjoyment of life 🤗

I also know a lot about fashion. Here I will offer a couple of thoughts, if I may.
Not sure any of it will resonate, but you know how to ignore!

Styles are habitually marketed at girls & young women as 'sexy'. That's weird when you think about it; what's the point of going around in clothes designed to show what you look like naked? (Doesn't matter if they're so full of Lycra & seaming that they lie about it!) You can do so many more interesting things with fabric, tell so many different stories with it.

In the group chat for checking friends' outfits, try looking at the stories their choices are telling. Does it look free & floaty, like you're dancing on a breeze? Is that what she wants with this garment? Clothes can say I'm tough & practical today, I'm relaxed & comfy, I'm a professional, I wanna stand out & dominate, I'm feeling a bit quiet, I'm feeling a sun-soaked African vibe ... there's no limit, really, and it's the interesting part about fashion!

Whether something suits you is NOT about whether it makes you look fat, thin, straight or curvy. It's more about how it suits your personality and the way you're going to wear it. Even if you're really short and wear something really wide - which is more important, looking 'box shaped' or feeling like you can sweep into any space and command attention with your interesting choice of volume & colour?

I haven't done a brilliant job of compressing three long essays (or books, even!) into three paragraphs. I hope you can see that I'm suggesting you switch the focus of your style chat FROM "What does this say about how I look naked?" TO actual fashion chat - the stories you're telling, the shapes, colours and textures, how you'll wear it, what accessories ... you get the idea.

PS: Agree with everything above about the sheer joy of feeling what your body can do, and I love the suggestion of martial arts training! How fab!

A lot of this resonates with me and how I was as a teenager. In the end, my boyfriend told my mum it was driving him nuts and she sat me down and had a serious chat/got me to empathise. It makes people feel jaded and awkward. And this was before the days of Instagram so god only knows how bad I’d have been with SM thrown in! Years on, and I’ve pretty much grown out of most of the dysmorphic stuff and try not to be too self-deprecating generally! Hopefully your daughter can learn to read the room as well as learn to fade out the negative self-narrative. Hopefully the fact that she’s upset means she’s listening and is processing it.

Body dysmorphia is a very difficult illness to live with. If she does have it, as her therapist suggests, she is looking in the mirror and genuinely, literally seeing something different to reality in the reflection. It is effectively hallucinating and very unnerving (once you realise/come to terms with the fact that that’s what it is). Most people to not understand at all, hence comments about fishing for compliments etc.

Arguing against her reality (aka you’re so skinny/you don’t look like that) is not necessarily helpful. Imagine you were looking at something red and someone told you it was blue. Why would you believe them?

I find it best to take the mental focus completely away from looks - with mantras such as “I am a kind and intelligent person.” “I am a great sister and friend, and I am well-loved.” “I’m great at science and have lots to contribute to the world.” “My family love spending time with me and my looks are not important.” Sounds silly but it helps.

As for her friends - unless there is one particularly close or empathetic friend she could share the diagnosis of body dysmorphia with, who will be understanding… best not to mention her appearance to her friends at all. They cannot understand the extremity of what she is going through at all.

I wonder if she could send the group chat a message along the lines of “for my mental health I am taking my focus away from physical appearance, and want to talk about other things” - would they be understanding? If not, best to leave that chat altogether. Although I know it wouldn’t be easy for a teenager.

Also completely disagree with the poster above that the “fishing for compliments” is a separate issue from the body dysmorphia. It is a main symptom. Imagine having the compulsive thought “I wonder if my double chin is noticeable, is everyone looking at it? Is it grotesque and people just aren’t saying? Should I check with Sarah?” 100 times an hour. Of course you eventually give in to it.

FWIW OP, I think you’re a good mum that she has shared so much about this with you already.

I’d agree that she's fishing for compliments. Or validation but no one is ever going to say she’s ugly etc, and with body dysmorphia she won’t believe the compliments either - so it’s a fairly soul destroying exercise to be repeating. I’d encourage her to lay off the group chat or limit it at least to have a mental break and continue to seek therapy to work on the body issues rather than trying to use WhatsApp to make herself feel better (or in this case worse) and this will hopefully also help her to find appropriate coping strategies.