To think that yobs who beat people up should be put into a severe boot camp before being allowed back into society?

[mumblesmummy]

This may have been covered before, so sorry if it's repetition, but I can't get over all this stuff in the news lately about yobs beating people up or carrying knives etc. Surely they should be sent to some kind of army training camp, encouraged to go into the army, and if they don't go in the army then they should be kept until they are civilised and then released back into society?

Surely this is better than prison where they'll become hardened criminals?

And if I'm wrong, then there must be some way to combat this kind of crime?

I completely agree. Bring back national service. Put them in with the Marines training and watch them learn about their mistakes and not have any free time to get into more trouble No telly, no own clothes or privacy.

Yep, totally agree with that. This is what happened to my DH last year on our first night out with our 4 week old son this link . Luckily I'd gone home earlier, but got a phone call at midnight saying he'd had a bit of an accident and was on his way to the hospital, so spent until 4 am there. At least it gave me a chance to show ds to my colleagues on nights, but I'd rather have waited until they were on days.

I agree with you completely.

Having beena victim of a car jacking, and then being told by the offender solictors that I needed to feel sorry for them (there were 2) because they were travellers so hadn't had the same advantages as me, so they couldn't afford a nice car. Erm neither could me and my DH we took out a loan to get a new car as my old one was died.

I'm sorry but this didn't wash with me as the uncles of the 2 victimswere very well respected and runs a very successful horse riding/stables.

They choose to do what they did.

Oh my God they're awful stories. It's getting ridiculous isn't it? I don't feel safe at all and it bothers me that I'm bringing a child into a nasty horrible world.

I feel so sorry for the family of that man who was recently killed as his daughters watched. It's just disgraceful.

totally agree. will write more when i stop bf

I rekon they should have to go on one of these "Bad Lads' Army" type courses and not be able to bail out before the course finishes.

No doubt though that the human rights brigade would be up in arms about it so it won't happen - they will just keep getting a slapped wrist and let out to do it all over again

Vole3 - I'm at this line in the article "do not consider that you yet satisfy the criteria to be considered a serious offender, but that may happen"
WTF do they consider a more serious offence then nearly beating a man to death??? Tosser.
How is your DH now?
Mumblesmummy - not in the least BU, I agree with Tori here.

There's a number of well researched studies to suggest that military style "boot camps" do not actually work with young people with conduct disorder and can actually have negative outcomes in terms of asociality, delinquency and recidivism.

the studies that show positive outcomes are those evaluating multi-systemic interventions including family, school and individual therapy using a mixture of problem solving/social skills training/reframing and CBT. However these interventions require a certain number of trained professionals and a lot of time and resources (eg, 33 weeks once weekly 90 minute per session group work) which is difficult to inplement in the first place let alone sustain.

For more info google "Stephen Scott" and "conduct disorder" (the countrys leading expert on the subject)

I often wonder when I read these stories if what wouldn't be better would be 'community service' but in awful places with real deprivation, in the third world, or where there has been a natural disaster or something. Doing the sort of thing that a lot of young people, who are already caring and responsible, volunteer to do in their gap year.

My hope would be that it would show them that despite what might well be relative deprivation, compared with some, they actually haven't had it so bad.

Often when I listen to radio 4 and they are talking to people who have lost everything in an earthquake or war, the discrepancy between our expectations and theirs takes my breath away. Maybe some of our 'yobs' need to see that first hand?

Didn't they have this under Thatcher? The Short Sharp Shock it was called and implemented by the then Home Sec Willie Whitelaw. I think they figured in the end that the programme just turned out faster, fitter criminals.

My father used to say the same about National Service - people don't actually learn anything in mindless boot camp, what they would actually benefit from is a few months working in an A&E department or as someone else suggested some other kind of community work. In reality I think this would be hard to implement as criminals would need constant supervision.

Hanging works as a way of stopping repeat offenders. The only minor problem wiht the death penalty is that its just slightly irresversible if the person turns out be innocent later on.

In practice its better to send such people to prison, but have prisons that are civilised places where people are reformed.

I think that prevention is better than cure. There needs to be better support for children who show anti social tenancies. CBT, complusory parenting classes for the parents of anti social children. Special needs at school need to be better funded and catered. I think there should be more specialised small group teaching for severely dyslexic children.

I believe that 50% of prisoners cannot read. Schemes like toe by toe where the literate prisoners teach the illitereate prisoners help both sets of prisoners.

Another contraversial issue is that Poles with high intelligence are coming into Britain and taking all the menial jobs that used to be done by British people with low intelligence.

People with moderate learning difficulties need work schemes to give them some pride and something to do. There used to be remploy that provided such jobs, but the goverant has scrapped it.

The armed forces don't want people who are unmotivated to improve themselves and have no self control or self respect.

I am wildly amused when norty boys in school tell me that they are going to join the army. Most of them wouldn't last 30 seconds!

i dont agree that these kind of people should be forced to join the army.

my dh is in the army and i would hate to think that he had to work alongside arses who had been forced to join and could not care if they were doing the job right or not, esp with all the current deployments in irag and afgan.

nope.

YABU.

They are much more likely to become decent people if they are treated badly. Rehabilitation is a better answer surely?

I meant Aren't treated - DOH!

is there no edit option on here?

why are they like that now? If we'd even been lippy as kids someone would have told my mum and we would have been punished. Of course i got up to some naughtiness but violence never even crossed my mind.

isn't "severe bootcamp where people who've committed violent crimes are kept until they are safe to be released back into society" aka prison?

I think the Army has higher standards.

kerryk I do know what you mean and perhaps I should have said instead of national service, implying that they will pass out and be trained, that they should spend a year in basic training and then have the option to sign up. Some of them may find their niche in society and may have the incentive of fairly decent pay.
PS My DH is Army and I am ex-RAF.

Why should the Army get such losers? It's not a dumping ground for wasters.

But I agree something needs to be done. There seems to be no deterrent for such behaviour.

Surely there are already too many yobs in the army. Particularly when you consider that a small minority of British soldiers have committed war crimes in Iraq.

Of the majority of soldiers are decent people. They do not deserve to have their lives put in danger by criminals who damage the reprutation of the British army.

If thugs were forced to join the army then even more attrocities like the torture of Iraqi prisoners would happen.

Perhaps not actually join the army but a spot of clearing of land mines for persistent offenders would act as a deterrent surely.

OH for gods sake. Most of these so called Yobs need more than just being forced into the army or some other kind of boot camp. Many of them would probably benefit from some kind of rehabilitation, something which makes them a part of society rather than excluding them from it.

You can't create civilised people by being uncivilsed to them ... education education education...

yes there are people out there who enjoy violence but along with punishment you have to have some kind of rehabilitation. It's not been proven that bad people benefit from just punishment. Surely as a society we would be better off combatting this from all angles so that those who are already set on this kind of path are helped to change their behaviours and those who are about to are given alternatives and help to discover those alternatives.