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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In thinking my friend has the right to change her locks?

88 replies

Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 13:39

A friend ( let's call her Pansy) has recently split from her partner of 10+ years. He ( 'John') instigated the split.

She was unaware it was going to happen until he went to a rented flat in another town. This was 10 days ago.

Pansy owns the house outright. No mortgage and only her name on the deeds.

John wants some of his stuff back. Nothing of great value. It's sentimental.

Pansy has given him ( on text) a few convenient dates to come and collect his stuff. He has been busy on theses dates. At a festival tbh.

She has now changed the locks on the house. Is this legal? John is claiming he will bring the police and force an entry? How likely is this?

Having offered numerous dates, is it legal to put his stuff out on the drive so he can collect it at his leisure? Will she be liable in any way for it, if it's stolen or damaged?

Thank you for any help. This is stressing her out.

OP posts:
Original poster
Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 16:56

*knows not ones

OP posts:
Original poster
Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 16:56

@uncomfortablydumb53
I knew what you meant!

OP posts:
Original poster
Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 16:57

For those asking, yes, both John and Pansy are in the UK. England in fact.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 25/06/2023 16:58

Too much thought going into this, OP. She doesn't need to worry. If he wants his stuff, he can come and get it, at an arranged time. If he makes a pest of himself, she calls the police. The police won't help him break in, and he doesn't have a key.

There's no story here. There's nothing he can do, except unlawful things, and if she's worried about that, she should speak to the police herself.

uncomfortablydumb53 · 25/06/2023 16:59

Agree with last poster
Tell her not to worry

Original poster
Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 16:59

@Watchkeys
The problem is that he's not responding to requests to collect his stuff at a mutually convenient time.
She just wants it all gone so she can move on.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 25/06/2023 17:01

https://www.thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/abandoned-items

This may help.

uncomfortablydumb53 · 25/06/2023 17:02

In that case she should message him giving a date and say if not collected by then his stuff will be disposed of
Bet he won't play stupid games then!

Original poster
Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 17:02

@NeverDropYourMooncup

Your post has really made me laugh! I hope it will cheer Pansy up too.
That is very much a description of the stuff he hasn't collected!

OP posts:
TheSnowyOwl · 25/06/2023 17:16

I would message him again to say he has until a certain date to collect everything or else it will be posted to his place of work with the postage bill paid for by the engagement ring.

honeynutcornfllakes · 25/06/2023 17:18

I would change the locks, shove his stuff in bin bags somewhere out of the way and leave him to it.

He can ask if she is in and if she is then he can collect. If she's not. Tough shut. Try again another day.

mynameisnotthis2 · 25/06/2023 17:35

I'd drop it all off at his parents/a friend's house then text him to let him know where he can pick it up from. Then he doesn't have any reason to force entry, legally or illegally. I'd also give the ring back just to avoid drama.

whatfreshhellisthis23 · 25/06/2023 18:57

Hoardasurass · 25/06/2023 13:51

She can change the locks but she can't just dump his stuff on the street as she will be liable for any loss or damage. She can arrange a convenient time for both of them so that he can come collect it or arrange for a 3rd party (that he is happy with) to collect it or that she can drop it off to

Can you cite the relevant law on this pls? She isn't a free storage service.

Original poster
Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 19:16

He has said he will collect the stuff on Tuesday at 7pm. Fingers crossed he will.
She is going to put it on the drive just before 7. Go in the house and film him taking it so he can't claim otherwise.
She is going to keep the ring as a bargaining tool on the electricity bill.

I will update on Tuesday as to whether he turns up.

OP posts:
justrude · 25/06/2023 19:26

Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 19:16

He has said he will collect the stuff on Tuesday at 7pm. Fingers crossed he will.
She is going to put it on the drive just before 7. Go in the house and film him taking it so he can't claim otherwise.
She is going to keep the ring as a bargaining tool on the electricity bill.

I will update on Tuesday as to whether he turns up.

Good luck to her!

LuckyCats · 25/06/2023 19:30

How much did he pay for the ring?
Resale value on engagement rings is low for obvious reasons, I can tell you that from bitter experience, my engagement ring cost £3000,
I eventually sold it for £300.
Unless it’s worth significantly more than that (I’m not getting the an impression of John this would be the case) it’s probably not worth the hassle of getting rid of it.

FrippEnos · 25/06/2023 19:41

Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 19:16

He has said he will collect the stuff on Tuesday at 7pm. Fingers crossed he will.
She is going to put it on the drive just before 7. Go in the house and film him taking it so he can't claim otherwise.
She is going to keep the ring as a bargaining tool on the electricity bill.

I will update on Tuesday as to whether he turns up.

She will need to be careful if she says that he can have it back if he pays the electricity as she is essentially saying that it belongs to him.

But I have never understood why anyone would want to keep the engagement ring when they have broken up.

drpet49 · 25/06/2023 20:09

StrawberryWater · 25/06/2023 14:39

Give it back.

Why would she want to keep hold of an engagement ring from a man who is acting like a complete and utter twat? Just give him his stuff back and be done with him. Or does she just like the drama?

Show quote history

This. Give the ring back.

CheshireDing · 25/06/2023 20:20

If he doesn’t come on Tuesday I would do as a pp said and book a storage unit for 30 days. Text and email telling him the unit number and that the keys are with the storage company and if it’s not emptied by x date she will dump the stuff

i know it means Pansy spending money but at least it’s out of her house and there is a definite end date

yes she should change the locks on the house

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 25/06/2023 20:20

Just saw your update re Tuesday.

I would've advised her to email him asking him to pay the money he owes (for electricity and any other bills) and telling him that storing his stuff would incur a fee of £x per week, starting on the date he abandoned it there. And that if it wasn't collected by another date (at least 14 days in the future) it would be disposed of, again at a cost to him. And suggesting that he arrange for a cab/ van to come over to collect his stuff if he for whatever reason doesn't want to come himself before that date.

Him getting his stuff is not a police matter. His making any kind of threat against her is, potentially. And her dumping his stuff on the pavement with no warning, for other people to help themselves to, would be frowned upon legally.

She should hang on to the ring! I thought that traditionally the whole point of an engagement ring being bought and gifted by a man was to back up his promise to marry a woman, and was meant to represent some financial security to her in the case of his breaking off the engagement <which appears to be what's happened here>?

Legally, it's considered an "absolute gift" to the fiancée, and is only considered a "conditional gift" if it's 'stated' (eg the parties involved have put something in writing) or 'implied' (eg it's a family heirloom) to be so. Even if she's been the one to end it, the recipient owns the ring, and can do whatever she wants with it.

Debini · 25/06/2023 20:26

I’d say she should give the ring back, it was given to her on the basis they were going to be married. They aren’t getting married so I’m my opinion she should return it.
As for his stuff give him some times to collect, if he doesn’t chuck it all in the shed for a while if there’s room and dispose of it a few months down the line so he can’t accuse her of throwing it away.

DrManhattan · 26/06/2023 10:08

@willWillSmithsmith not sure how dumping his stuff at a charity shop and changing the locks is strange advice? Other posters have said the same.

TitsonaFishRidingaBicycle · 26/06/2023 10:13

DrManhattan · 26/06/2023 10:08

@willWillSmithsmith not sure how dumping his stuff at a charity shop and changing the locks is strange advice? Other posters have said the same.

Because he would then be able to claim against her

www.rutherfordslegal.com/how-to-dispose-of-goods-on-your-premises-that-dont-belong-to-you/

TheSeaDoesntKnowMyName · 26/06/2023 10:14

Moonflower12 · 25/06/2023 14:34

Thank you everyone. She has offered him a few times going on through this week. He hasn't replied yet to these but is clearly on the train with time to kill.
She has taken on board the advice about her liabilities towards the stuff. It is quite bulky and heavy- some of it. Fingers crossed he is sensible and agrees to a date for collecting it.

He is also demanding she returns the engagement ring he bought her. Can she keep it as it was a 'gift'?

In broad terms, an engagement ring is given as an 'absolute gift' and, as such, belongs to the person to whom it was given. The law takes no account of which partner calls off the engagement, so regardless of who broke off the relationship, the ring does not have to be given back.9 Feb 2023

If your engagement doesn't have a happy ending, who gets ...

If your engagement doesn’t have a happy ending, who gets the ring? - DAS Law

Jade Harrison provides useful insight and clarifies the legal position surrounding ownership of what is often an expensive statement of love.

https://www.daslaw.co.uk/blog/if-your-engagement-ends-badly-who-gets-the-ring#:~:text=In%20broad%20terms%2C%20an%20engagement,have%20to%20be%20given%20back.

DrManhattan · 26/06/2023 10:19

@TitsonaFishRidingaBicycle but she has already told him several times to collect unless I've read it incorrectly

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