Is this offensive or not? South Island girl

[BastetsWhiskers]

I was trying to run a comb through my hair very gingerly yesterday (knots) when I was told I looked like a South island girl. From someone in their 70s.

Is this an offensive phrase? I don't even know which south island they were referring to.

This isn't entirely serious, I wondered if it was something which shouldn't be said. And where the island is.

To be honest I’d have to google exactly where this was and then check the hair. I don’t think it’s racist per se though. More a generalisation comment if person from a certain era.

@CoffeeCantata the use of the term 'racism' is interesting.
It does actually cover discrimination or disadvantage to any ethnic or cultural group based on geography, skin colour or birth etc where there is an imbalance of power.

Since 'race' itself is not a real thing in humans, 'racism' isn't only about 'race', if you see what I mean?

Paul Gilroy puts it better. Google him.

We in our seventies are a mixed bunch. I learned a lot (after an all white childhood in Scotland) from working with people from a variety of backgrounds. There are words from my young days I’d never utter, as I’ve learnt how offensive they are. Lots of my generation haven’t had my experiences and may well use some expressions without realising they might offend someone.

A bit like ageism perhaps?

If you are judging a certain group of people by a characteristic negatively then it is prejudice, if the group are grouped due to location then that prejudice is racist. Wild women of borneo is both sexist and racist, its insulting on both the fact women are expected to be well groomed and if they are not they are like these women from this place.

The one in the op isn't clear cut because if over a certain age it could be a comment towards a reputation for being incredibly beautiful and taking care of themselves and spending time looking after their hair.

I think the term has been misheard as I'm from New Zealand and nobody would say 'look like a South Islander'. It wouldn't mean anything sensible.

I agree that it was probably meant to mean 'South Seas Islander' which is a pretty outdated term but I can imagine someone in their 70s using it. People say 'Pacific Islands' these days.

A little background on the term 'islanders' as understood in New Zealand.

It used to be more common here to say 'Islanders' as a short form of 'Pacific Islanders', meaning 'islands in the Pacific other than New Zealand.' New Zealand Europeans were not regarded as Pacific Islanders but Maori could sometimes be lumped in with the term, so it does have colonialist overtones, particularly 'Islanders'. It's not as bad as 'natives' but it's heading in that direction.

Today you'd be less likely to casually lump all people who are from Pacific islands together in one undifferentiated mass, as the islands all have very different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. There's a world of difference between a Tongan and a New Caledonian and a Fijian, and a New Zealander for that matter.

At any rate, I do think there's something valuely diminishing in associating hair that needs to be carefully combed out with being 'Islander' hair. I'm sure it's not meant maliciously at all but it is lazy stereotyping.

It must be very tedious to monitor everything you say in case it might be misconstrued as cultural appropriation, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. And however much you self censor, there will always be someone woker than thou, who will get you eventually.

Or you could look at it as being less about constant self-monitoring and more about remaining open to learning about different ways that words come across to people who've lived different lives to you, and seeing opportunities to expand your thinking about the world and extend your vocabulary and ability to communicate in a way that people will find caring and supportive.

Yes, you're using a racist term, although that doesn't make you "a racist".

You don't have to be a committed, bigotted, knuckle-dragging Nazi to unthinkingly use racist words or terms. Many of us might use them. Often they are habitual - we learned then as a child, never really thought about their origins or why they might be racist.

I think it's more instructive to see, once you learn that something is considered racist, what your attitude then is. Do you double down and say "I'm not a racist, so it's nonsense to claim I am using a racist phrase and I'm going to keep on saying it" or do you say "now that has been explained to me, I can see how it might make people feel uncomfortable, so I'm going to try and stop saying it"?

(Similarly, Pakistan is a country, not a race, but that doesn't make using the he racist epithet linked to the country any less racist.)

You're nice. 🤔

@Bagsundermyeyestoday

As an elderly person I find this offensive but I’m happy that my approaching death will be a pleasure for you.

This is MN. Ageism is a-ok.

People talking with glee about others dying soon. Racism isn't the only ill in society, you know.

What the heck is wrong with "pyjamas"??

I’d understand it to be a compliment, as it brings to my mind images of beautiful pacific island girls, combing their long dark hair on the banks of a pool beneath a waterfall. An image I have from old films I used to watch with my gran! Probably South Pacific as others have mentioned.

Is it racist? I don’t think so. But it’s an example of how we stereotype some
cultures as ‘exotic’ natives. And shows how so much of our knowledge of parts the world is due to how Hollywood portrays it!

I'm surprised words like pyjamas and wearing mufti for school are allowed

mufti is rarely used in schools these days, so as not to cause offence!

Pyjamas are Hindi dress, introduced to Britain through the Raj. I.e. cultural appropriation of oppressed people.

It has all the characteristics of a word which could cause offence.

Cultural appropriation of pjs

Give me strength.

The issue here is that OP hears a phrase she is not familiar with and immediately wonders if its offensive. Thats the problem.

From the Isle of Wight I expect: strange women those caulkheads 😁

Oh, you're one of those people who think 'curry' is racist too. I feel sorry for you. Do you also think 'pepperoni' is racist? Or is that okay because Italians are white?

Obvs replying to @TreadLight .

ODFOD.

We get it. You're sore because nowadays you get called on your racist shit. Good. Get used to it.

What is wrong with thug and uppity? Neither are words I particularly use but equally I have never heard that either of them are now considered offensive

@TreadLight So to clarify, you deem the word "pyjamas" to be offensive, rather than the act of wearing them?

By this logic, it's offensive to use the word "kimono" to refer to, well, kimonos.

My sister in law is of South Islander descent. She’s from and lives in New Zealand.
She’s beautiful with stunning black curly hair.
Take it as a compliment. The Southern Islanders are lovely happy people.

If ther person your saying it to is:

White = not offensive
Black = offensive

Even if the reason your calling them uppity or a thug has nothing to do with skin colour .

Apparently something to do with historical stuff.

Same as a poster on here was replying aggressively to other poster and when called out on it. other posters came to her defence saying you can say that because shes black. And historically black woman have been called aggressive.

@yellowsmileyface , @GBoucher , I am much more on the side of sharing and celebrating everyone's culture. Unfortunately, many people seek to be offended, so I gave a reductio ad absurdum example which, if you applied the same logic as being used for words like "uppity" or "thug" earlier in the thread, should be on the list of banned words.