To not understand how it is possible to work F/T and have a clean and tidy house?

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Obviously it is possible. I know plenty of people who manage it but I don't understand how?

I won't go into long-winded explanations but the cliff notes version;

My ex (and bestfriend) died. He was the father of my kids. I know I shouldn't have but I read through his messages when I got his phone back. There were some really upsetting messages between him and our daughters.

They didn't like how our house was decorated because some areas hadn't been decorated and were still the way they were when we moved in. They didn't like how much I expected them to help out in the house. My youngest appeared to outright hate me. He would encourage them to help more since I worked 2 full-time jobs and he helped by doing the garden for me but he did agree with them that I did not do enough for them.

After that, I vowed to stop shouting at them for not helping. I still ask them to help but when they don't I don't shout and nag. I also promised myself I would decorate and do all the DIY jobs that never get done and finish sorting the garden that X started etc etc etc

But it is quite simply not possible. I am exhausted and getting nowhere. Now I have stopped shouting and nagging my daughters have stopped doing anything. I did tell the oldest that I wasn't going to feed her dog anymore and she had to do it herself. As far as she knows the poor thing has not been fed for four days now (obviously I have fed her dog for her). I sweep and mop the floors downstairs and wash the dishes after my shift at work before I walk my dog and go to bed but when I get up in the morning there are dishes in the sink again and DD's dog has shit on the floor and they've just left it to be stood in and trailed around the house.

Every day is an endless cycle of work, cleaning, DIY, gardening, and on and on but the house still does not look any better in fact it looks worse because all of X's things were brought here when we sold his house, so I now have 2 houses worth of furniture and all his clothes and trinkets piled up in boxes everywhere and I started stripping wallpaper, so we went from dating decor to no decor.

The decorating is still not finished. I've been trying for 3 months now and have papered one wall and mostly fixed the front garden and half of the back garden. That's it. In 3 months that is all I have managed. The day-to-day cleaning seems to take all my time.

I work four days on, four days off, 12-hour shifts. By the time I finish a four-day run at work, the entire house needs a deep clean because no-one has done anything at all besides the floors and dishes that I do.

Before I read those messages I had 2 full-time jobs but still had time to read. I was learning to code and studying for a CCNA certificate. Now I only have 1 job but have zero time to myself. I've put my degree and CCNA on hold and I cannot remember the last time I had the time or energy to pick up my Kindle.

What am I doing wrong?

I think you need to pick your battles/start with small steps.

Sit them down and tell them that you are struggling, that you’re a single parent working FT and you are tired.

Tell them that you will carry on with the routine housework (hoovering, mopping etc) but they need clean up after themselves eg cleaning the kitchen and washing their dishes, if they make a mess in the bathroom then clean it up, putting their laundry in laundry baskets.

Cleaning as you go is so much easier than leaving it and then having loads to deal with.
Your home should not be that messy if people clean as they go.

Feeding the dogs together is probably easier so you can strike a deal with your DD that you’ll feed her dog but she needs to clean up after it and walk it etc.

It would be really good for her MH to get outside and walk her dog more.
Perhaps you could all start going for a couple of long walks a week somewhere remote which will exercise the dogs but also give her time out of her room.

Once they’ve learnt how to clean up after themselves then you can start sharing out the regular chores like laundry, gardening etc.

You are teaching them skills for life.
If is not nagging to tell them to clean up after themselves.
You are failing them by not teaching them these skills as it’s going to be 10x more difficult when they move out and do everything by themselves.

How old are your daughters? I'd never gotten on well with my mother but when my dad died grief turned me into an utter bitch for a bit, of which I am not proud. I tried to make up for it when I started to cope with the loss and realised but it is a time I am not proud of.

If they're older teens they need to buck up, as mam would have said, and start helping you. Don't let your love for their dad, and presumably for them, make you turn yourself into a martyr, doing things that are their responsibility, and possibly make yourself ill.

I am very sorry you're going through this.

Realistically you have 3 adult sized human mess and one adult cleaning it plus 2 dogs and 2 cats, one who isn't toilet trained.
On top of this you are dealing with 2 mourning teenagers, both with what sounds like significant mental health issues. Plus your own greif.

And you are holding down a Ft job? Personally I think it's quite impressive you get anything done. No one would be able to maintain any semblance of cleanliness in those conditions

Don't be hard on yourself. That's an awful lot to deal with. Your daughters do need to help more. It does you and them no favours to let them not get into the routine of not cleaning up after themselves. You need to sit them down and be frank with them about how your feeling. Give them set jobs and you will need to nag/shout if they aren't done.

It's completely normal for teenagers to hate housework. It's completely normal for them to moan, and sometimes make horrible comments about the house they live in. None of these things mean they shouldn't do housework, or you need to redecorate.

Never mind rehoming the dog, tell your self-entitled daughter to shape up or ship out if she doesn't like it, cleaning her own home will give her something to concentrate her mind on rather than laying in bed being self-absorbed thinking the world owes you something... Sick to death of this MH obsession being used to excuse bone idleness.

This, this is the answer OP.

I'm really sorry you're struggling with this - I do too, I get so upset when I ask my kids to do one job and they won't without an argument - but the last thing I'm going to do is let them flounce off in a huff and just do it for them.

I think you need to sit down with them and have a serious talk, that you know they're unhappy with certain things, and you are too, but you aren't just some housekeeper that they happen to live with, you are their mother, living as a family in a family home, and families need to help one another.

16 yr old can go live with the 19-year-old and they can spend their time bitching about how hard done by they are.

‘m sorry to hear about your 19 year old. She really needs to stop cancelling the therapy (stating the obvious I know!)

I think life needs to get quite a bit more uncomfortable for these two, so they get the message that they can’t carry on like this.

This is a bit drastic, maybe not entirely practical, but I would consider sitting them down, telling them that you cannot continue living this way, with clutter everywhere, dog shit on the floor and constant mess. It is unhygienic, bad for the mental health of all of you. Therefore, you will be going part-time at work in order to clear the clutter, decorate and keep the house clean and liveable. You will be selling a lot of stuff, cancelling the wifi, no heating until November, buying basic food only. They can choose a few things of their father’s and you’ll be selling the rest. You wish it didn't have to be this way, but it’s a question of living standards. If they cannot think of an alternative plan, this is what will happen. See what they say? Be prepared to follow through too. Personally I would rather be poor but living in a nice home (and I’m serious about the mental health aspect of this) so I would do it.

You aren't doing anything wrong. Your life is extremely busy and you are working your guts out. TBH, they aren't children. They are 16 and 19 and to whinge about decor is pretty disgraceful - maybe a function of our "instagram" society though? They are also old enough to decorate and contribute, rather than you being the hotel maid. I moved in here 15 years ago - kitchen is still as it was when we moved in (aside from new appliances, so everything functions). It's normal not to live in a show home.

The 16yo lives in filth and squalor (and is also a hoarder hence why we cannot sort her Dad's things. She's not prepared to part with anything so trying to sort through things always leads to tears).

You said your DDs have been left money by their dad. Hire a storage facility for his stuff and get the 16 year old to pay.

I feel sorry for the dog - do you or anyone walk it? I'd put it in boarding kennels at the 19 years old expense until she got her arse out of bed ... and I'd also be charging her rent (out of her inheritance) and using it to pay for a cleaner.

I don't think X really understood what living with two teenagers and working full-time was like. He'd never done it. When we lived together I was self-employed and could work my hours around housework/dog training/childcare etc plus whenever we had more than one fully trained terrier in the house it was because it was literally my job to stay home and train the extra dog. We didn't have any cats.

When we separated the kids moved out with me and I started working full-time outside of the home. He would have the youngest overnight sometimes but the eldest refused to stay overnight.

His house was always nicely decorated but his BIL runs his own property company (renovating houses to sell/let) so that was always done for him free of charge. His house was always messy but relatively clean but as I said he didn't have teenagers or pets to contend with nor did he have a garden.

He did help me. That's how the garden into such a state after we lost him. He did all of the gardening here.

My dog is partially trained. He is toilet trained, recalls well, and waits at doors, and knows the basic commands (sit/down/stay/wait/drop it/leave it). He's not trained the way I want him to be trained and he does contribute to the mess. If the kids leave things on the counters he will jump up and pull them down (empty packets/takeout cartons etc) and rip them up. He also gets all of his toys out and hasn't been trained to put them away after himself like my terrier was and he brings bits of the garden into the house to chew up.

I do feel like I need to live up to him, in a way, and be both parents. And do often feel like I'll be never as good as he was for them that is partly why I feel like the house needs to be tidier/nicely decorated.

I work part time and have a 7 and 2 year old.
2 year old starts nursery in September so days off I have her all the time as my partner works nights on my days off and sleeps in the day

My flat is messy and dusty in some areas

The Chi is walked with my dog when she wants to go out but often she'll run upstairs and hide with DD when she sees me switch off my work laptop. She genuinely does not like walking. She likes being carried to the park but I refuse to carry her so she prefers not to go out with me.

She does have enrichment, as I said, DD will not leave the house without her so she is socialized. She joins playtime/training with my dog daily and enjoys playing with cats in the garden if the grass is dry (she won't get her feet wet).

I really would not feel sorry for her. She is getting fed by me and apart from not feeding her DD dotes on her and treats her like an actual newborn child.

Are any of you receiving any type of therapy?

The 16yo had bereavement counseling at school. The 19 yo is supposed to be working with a therapist and is waiting for a mental health assessment from a psychologist. Her therapist suspects she may have autism or BPD. Part of her illness though is anxiety around leaving the house/speaking on the phone so she cancels her appointments more often than not.

To be honest op you're on a hiding to nothing here. There's no possible way for you to have a tidy house with the obstacles you face so stop blaming and beating yourself up for it.

People with tidy houses do not have all of these:

• 2 full time jobs
• two messy people living with them who do no cleaning up after themselves
• one of those messy people having mental health problems so tackling their behaviour is complex
• two dogs and two cats
• a dog who defecates in the house
• the results of a house clearance that can't be got rid off
• no paid-for domestic help

I'm not saying it's hopeless, but it is hopeless unless some of the above change. If it's not possible for any of them to change then you will have a messy house. You doing more housework will not be enough on its own to change it so this is NOT YOUR FAULT.

Your daughter's sound spiteful and ungrateful they're old enough to help around the house hell at 16 I moved out and had my son, they have no excuses especially the older one

The chi isn't hard to toilet train, I have 5 of them. They just need to go regularly go outside to the garden. Try every hour to begin with. Then say 11pm for the last toilet then up early again around 7/8am to go out. If it runs and hides, pick it up and put it outside and teach it the word toilet.
This is what your 19 year old needs to do. I have autism I get bad spells of not wanting to leave the house but it's cruel not to let the dog out for the toilet.

She won't poo outside. She will pee outside. She always pees on her pad or on something that resembles a pad eg the food wrappers I mentioned earlier that end up on the floor. If there is no pad or equivalent she'll ask to go outside to pee on the grass but she has never shit outside.

She will shit on her pad but not consistently. She does have her favourite spots but I cannot work out what is similar/special about these places that are not in garden. Her favourite place to shit is in doorways, we have a gate between the patio where the shed and bins are and the grass, effectively a doorway, she won't shit there, even if we put a pad there.

Clearly, it's something we/DD has inadvertently taught her to do but I cannot work out how to unteach it without causing myself extra work and stress.

She's raw-fed and also tiny so her poop is minute and hard. I wouldn't mind the pooing indoors so much if it was picked up after she did it and not left to be trampled on.

You have such a lot to deal with right now. I won't bother to post how many hours or what I did with having 4 DKs,it just sets MNers off!! To be honest I wonder how the hell I coped, looking back. My youngest son has rapid cycle bipolar,and severe anxiety,all the time. He lives independently now,has done since he was that age,(I am down as his official carer) we did years of various therapists. He then realised it was down to him. He does have days when he can't go out. Inside,he does 90 minutes yoga, meditation. Goes for 90 minutes power walks. Got into the habit of being tidy, although he didn't want to,then it becomes ingrained. It isn't easy,we had screaming tantrums and suicide threats. It did have a DH at this time,who ironically also had severe anxiety and depression caused by his childhood, agoraphobia. Decorating, keeping the house tidy was MY salvation. I had a point going through the menopause,my late father dying, working full time nights,young child another,with severe depression caused by a con artist. Older DD wanting to come back home because of relationships break ups (tiny 3 bed cottage) she had been left home by 18 years at this point. I was absolutely swamped. Had confusion, thought I had dementia. Visited the helpline, they said it was severe stress. Previously I got 2 puppies,6 months apart,youngest DD got a puppy,(ours were 4 then) she has to take turns walking them,no question. Staying in bed,no mental physical push is the worst thing. Hope you get it sorted.

So the dog is her comforter and lifeline, she needs to step up and look after it if it's keeping her alive.

Sounds like really bothering you, and too right. Awful.

Hows things now?!

This is a weird, stalky, AS

I occasionally get a bit obsessive over the floors and pet hair, but as mentioned in the thread that triggered this creepy behaviour, I come to my senses soon after.

I toilet-trained the chihuahuas when we went on holiday with them not long after this post. There are four of them now. The 19yo is now almost 21 and doing really well. She's getting support, finally, and has just started college.

but ever so chilled about it on the other thread 🤨

And DH's things have either been tidied away or quietly rehomed to someone who needs them more than we do. Plus, I only have 1 job now.

I usually clean on a Saturday afternoon. From time to time, if a dog is shedding or a toy has had innards ripped out I might sweep during the week, but otherwise, I get on with things I enjoy doing after work instead.