To not understand how it is possible to work F/T and have a clean and tidy house?

[Frequency]

Obviously it is possible. I know plenty of people who manage it but I don't understand how?

I won't go into long-winded explanations but the cliff notes version;

My ex (and bestfriend) died. He was the father of my kids. I know I shouldn't have but I read through his messages when I got his phone back. There were some really upsetting messages between him and our daughters.

They didn't like how our house was decorated because some areas hadn't been decorated and were still the way they were when we moved in. They didn't like how much I expected them to help out in the house. My youngest appeared to outright hate me. He would encourage them to help more since I worked 2 full-time jobs and he helped by doing the garden for me but he did agree with them that I did not do enough for them.

After that, I vowed to stop shouting at them for not helping. I still ask them to help but when they don't I don't shout and nag. I also promised myself I would decorate and do all the DIY jobs that never get done and finish sorting the garden that X started etc etc etc

But it is quite simply not possible. I am exhausted and getting nowhere. Now I have stopped shouting and nagging my daughters have stopped doing anything. I did tell the oldest that I wasn't going to feed her dog anymore and she had to do it herself. As far as she knows the poor thing has not been fed for four days now (obviously I have fed her dog for her). I sweep and mop the floors downstairs and wash the dishes after my shift at work before I walk my dog and go to bed but when I get up in the morning there are dishes in the sink again and DD's dog has shit on the floor and they've just left it to be stood in and trailed around the house.

Every day is an endless cycle of work, cleaning, DIY, gardening, and on and on but the house still does not look any better in fact it looks worse because all of X's things were brought here when we sold his house, so I now have 2 houses worth of furniture and all his clothes and trinkets piled up in boxes everywhere and I started stripping wallpaper, so we went from dating decor to no decor.

The decorating is still not finished. I've been trying for 3 months now and have papered one wall and mostly fixed the front garden and half of the back garden. That's it. In 3 months that is all I have managed. The day-to-day cleaning seems to take all my time.

I work four days on, four days off, 12-hour shifts. By the time I finish a four-day run at work, the entire house needs a deep clean because no-one has done anything at all besides the floors and dishes that I do.

Before I read those messages I had 2 full-time jobs but still had time to read. I was learning to code and studying for a CCNA certificate. Now I only have 1 job but have zero time to myself. I've put my degree and CCNA on hold and I cannot remember the last time I had the time or energy to pick up my Kindle.

What am I doing wrong?

The 19yo has very severe social anxiety and suicidal ideation so she is not in work or education. She's mostly in bed. The dog is her biggest comfort so I cannot even think about threatening to rehome it. It would push her over the edge. She is 100 times more likely to leave the house and do something social if she can bring her dog. She says holding, hugging, and stroking the dog while she is out calms her and helps to reduce panic attacks. When she's feeling really low or thinking about ending her life she takes the dog to bed with her and that helps her mood.

She also swore black and blue she would train it when I agreed to let her buy it

It is a lovely wee thing, I just wish it wouldn't shit all over the place.

What’s wrong is you’ve taken their comments as a personal attack when you should have turned it back onto them. Somewhere down the line they decided you and you alone are responsible for cleaning up after them and cleaning the house. Wtf is that? Why was your OH not jumping to your defence and saying they are big enough and old enough to clean up too - they obviously recognise it needs doing.

I think I’d take myself away and leave them to live in their own filth!

You can't have a clean and tidy house while working fulltime unless you can afford to pay a cleaner to do it for you. Keeping a tidy home is a fulltime job in itself.

You could help yourself a little by getting rid of the animal(s). You're wasting a lot of time feeding the dog, taking it for walks and cleaning up its shit when it shits on the floor. Give the thing away and you'll automatically get more time back AND have less filth to deal with.

Also you'd find it more manageable if you didn't have your daughters living there. You are no longer legally responsible for the 19yo so give her a couple of week's notice to pack her bags and leave. While the 16yo doesn't have to live with you either, you're still responsible for making sure she has somewhere safe to be for the next couple of years. But if you give the elder one her marching orders your problem will be halved and hopefully it'll make the younger one think that they need to start pulling their weight so they don't get kicked out too.

19 YO should move out. I moved out at 18 and it was absolutely not too young. If you insist she stays I would say if she doesn’t feed her dog (even for 1 day) then you are taking it to be rehomed, it’s not fair on the animal.

Get the kids helping again. My kids moan about having to help, they probably moan to Ex-husband about it. Ex-husband and his dw seem to do everything for them but there's 2 of them and 1 of me. I've told mine they have to help and if they don't like it they know where the door is. They're both still here far more than at their dad's.

19 and 16. I assumed younger children, TBH

It's hard to change patterns that are ingrained. And you're all still grieving for your ex / their Dad. But, never too late to turn things around

There are LOADS of threads on MN about keeping the house clean and tidy. Key themes / solutions are -

Ruthless decluttering
Clean little and often
Never leave a room empty

This works for me, but it's hard if other people undermine your efforts

In your situation, I have a few suggestions -

(1) Get your bedroom as you want it. Good to have one room that's comfortable and relaxing
(2) Don't pick up their laundry. If it stays on their bedroom floor and doesn't get washed, so be it
(3) if they leave their stuff lying around communal areas, "helpfully" tidy it up into supermarket bags for life and leave in their bedroom. Superficially, the communal areas look clean, but it'll be a PITA for them when they can't find their stuff. This might be an incentive for them to tidy
(4) Ask them their solutions for division of chores. Suggest a rota, but don't take responsibility for allocating jobs. Get them on board
(5) can you afford a cleaner / decorator? Even if it's a stretch, might be worth it for peace of mind
(6) Actions have consequences. DD doesn't feed her dog and doesn't know that you did. Consider rehoming it
(7) ranting is pointless, especially if you end up caving in and tidying up after them
(8) think what works for you, and stick to it, consistently

If I were living by myself I could.

The 19yo has very severe social anxiety and suicidal ideation so she is not in work or education. She's mostly in bed. The dog is her biggest comfort so I cannot even think about threatening to rehome it

@Frequency I cross-posted with this. I can understand why you wouldn't wish to rehome the dog. And I think some of the replies would have been different if PP had known about your 19 YO's struggles

Perhaps best to make small steps. Ruthless decluttering during lockdown made a huge difference in my family

I’m so sorry about your loss.

it sounds as if your kids and you had a great relationship with their dad, and that you co-parented them really well. They felt secure enough in their relationship with you and him to have a moan about you to him (and I would guess before he died they moaned at you about him sometimes as well as saying “but dad lets us do that”)

Bitching about one’s parents to another trusted adult is normal teen-age behaviour. It dosent mean they truly hate you or the house. If your ex hadn’t died you wouldn’t know. He never told you I assume? So he thought it was normal teen winging and was ignoring it. With his death this has all become caught up in the bereavement feeling. you feel the need to be a better parent because your having to be both parents and they are going to idolise the way he parented them because your all grieving.

They probably think they hate doing chores because their teens- Tbf most of use hate doing chores. Your job as a parent is to teach them how to do chores and the ongoing need to do them regularly as part of becoming an adult. There older teens. sit them down (maybe post last GCSE if the 16yr old is sitting them) and say this is the stuff that needs to be done in the house daily and weekly - who is doing what? and let them decide. Thier are apps where you can divide tasks in a gamified way. Their also old enough to decorate their own space, and it’s a great life skill for them to learn- hold out the carrot that if they do their chores this summer you will give them £x (what you can afford) to buy paint etc and help them do their rooms - you might discover a talented decorator!

I’m a single parent and work FT and struggle to keep on top of the cleaning.

I have pets and I definitely think they make it more difficult.

Just this morning my cat knocked over the cat biscuits, then was sick on the stairs and then I had to clean his litter tray out - if I didn’t have that to do then I could have done the washing up, put a load of laundry on etc.

I love my pets but I compare my life to my DB who doesn’t have any and his home is so much cleaner and stays that way for longer.

On Sundays I put an audiobook on and spend the day doing a proper clean.
Then during the week I’ll just do like half an hour a day but by Sunday it definitely needs a proper clean again.

I have a teen who is messy but I try and contain their messyness to their bedroom.
If they’ve made a mess in the kitchen or bathroom then they have to clean it up.

Also is 19yo getting professional help (I know nhs is a mess) but their are several charity organisations that might be able to help?

They do their own laundry unless I find it in the bathroom or other communal areas then I do it with mine. I don't clean their rooms or wash their clothes. It is help in the communal areas I need.

The 16yo lives in filth and squalor (and is also a hoarder hence why we cannot sort her Dad's things. She's not prepared to part with anything so trying to sort through things always leads to tears).

The 19yo manages to keep her room mostly clean but then again she mostly stays in her bed so doesn't make much mess unless it's a mess in the kitchen from cooking or a mess her dog has made.

I am sorry. It all sounds really tough.

Your daughters are being unreasonable, espeically at 19 they share a responsibility for your joint home and the state it's in. If you work that much I imagine you aren't home much and most of the mess is them.

But the way to keep on top of it - either be super organised, or outsource. Decorators, cleaner etc.

Also you'd find it more manageable if you didn't have your daughters living there. You are no longer legally responsible for the 19yo so give her a couple of week's notice to pack her bags and leave. While the 16yo doesn't have to live with you either, you're still responsible for making sure she has somewhere safe to be for the next couple of years. But if you give the elder one her marching orders your problem will be halved and hopefully it'll make the younger one think that they need to start pulling their weight so they don't get kicked out too.

Bloody hell 😳😳

Kicking your own kids out because your home is bit messy is an over reaction.

Just get them to help with cleaning/not make any more mess.

Your daughters need to help more.

But I don't think you are doing anything wrong. It is not sustainable.

My house is a cluttered mess. Some weeks it looks better than usual....but those are the weeks my job has suffered.

I am not a single parent. I have a partner and i still struggle (my kids are young).

Some people do seem to manage it. I really don't know how. Very focused and organised, I think.

Firstly , I’m sorry for your loss, this must make everything a lot harder. With regards to the house, there a variety of issues going on that need sorting separately I think.

1. your kids need to help more. Don’t feel bad for asking them, they are perfectly capable of doing their share and should be helping.
2. the dog that poos- why is it it pooing inside? This shouldn’t be happening. If it’s not being let out enough-your daughter needs to step up and sort this. If it’s a medical / behavioural issue, it also needs sorting. In the meantime I would get a crate or restrict the dog to a moppable carpet free room at night.
3. I think a lot of your problem is ‘stuff’. I know you’re exhausted and I know how hard it is but I think your main focus for the next month or so should be to massively reduce how much stuff is in the house. You will find that it is so much easier to deal with other things when the house isn’t full

good luck!!

hold out the carrot that if they do their chores this summer you will give them £x (what you can afford) to buy paint etc and help them do their rooms - you might discover a talented decorator!

This is also another thing that has changed. I would not pay their phone bills if they hadn't helped out enough previous to this but their Dad left them a substantial amount of money. Bribery and withholding mobile data doesn't work anymore.

I can't afford a cleaner (the kids probably could!).

I think I need to try to talk to them again. And the PP who said about feeding the dog and not threatening things I can't/won't follow through has a very valid point. Her dog has always been fed with my dog so she probably does know I am still feeding it.

She is on a waiting list for therapy but keeps getting put back to the back of the list because she always cancels the appointments.

The dog doesn't have any medical issues. She's not toilet trained. She is a chihuahua. They are notoriously difficult to toilet train and I knew DD would keep it upstairs a lot so I advised pad training it. And it is pad trained but the pads are either not put down because I forget or when they are put down they are not changed when she uses them.

The 16yo has two cats and I have caught the dog trying to use their litter so she could be litter trained quite easily but that just feels like yet another job I will have to take on that I don't have time for.

Your daughters need to chip in!! Even my 5 year old tidies his toys up after him once I have asked him 5 times

If I maintain basic household standards during the week, feed myself a reasonable diet and work full time, I consider that a win. Saturday morning, I put the house back together. Don't be so hard on yourself.

I’m so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you’re in a bewildering state; I’m also mourning a loved one and feel like my magnetic pole has disappeared.

This may not be the time to try and make any big changes. I’d urge you to put on the kettle and make a nice cup of tea instead.

Those messages weren’t intended for you to read. Sometimes, it’s not possible to say 100% of what needs saying; your ex might have been looking for the easy win by agreeing about the decor, in order to drive home the point that they should help more.

And they should help more.

I remember laughing with my teenage friends about all our dp’s terrible decor. I think that’s a normal part of starting to separate from parents, and prepare to move out into the world. We were beginning to imagine building our own nests.

What you’re trying to do is impossible. You already know it.

In olden times the people working two jobs lived in one or two room hovels, and the ones with nice houses had more than one full time staff. Now our housing standards have risen but we are expected to be breadwinner, skivvy, cook, housemaid, nanny and the lady of the house all rolled into one. And you’re adding psychologist, gardener, interior decorator to that.

You know it’s not possible. What you’re doing is more about self flagellation, guilt and grief. You don’t have to be some kind of perfect parent to make up for the loss of their dad. You can only be yourself, and that is enough. It really is.

Sorry for your loss

It's very hard even working part time to keep an tidy, clean and decorated house! It's barely organised chaos here at best, that's with 2 supposedly competent middle aged adults (I only work 20 hrs pw plus some charity work) and 2 supposedly intelligent young adults though both are nd.

I get it I really do, it gets me down often.

I think you need to sit down together and make a plan, divide up chores (bit less for 16 year old as still at school) and have firm house rules you will all stick to. Then make a plan for long term improvements they buy into

Why is this on you? A 19 year old can put pads down and toilet train a dog! In the nicest way, I really think you need to stop taking everything onto your own back, it’s just not fair or sustainable . Your daughter got a dog, she is an adult, she needs to look after it.

So, to recap, your children complain about everything, they have money and they won't lift a finger in the house? Your oldest has MH issues and a dog.

You have two dogs, your dog is trained, your DD's dog isn't.

Did your ex work? did you take care of him as well? Maybe that's where they picked up their attitude?

You say he agreed with you DDs that you didn't do enough for them. What did he do for them? What did he think you could do more?

Unless your DDs step up you have no way out of this.

Hi OP !

I'm an 18yo DD, using my mums account, and I wanted to give you my perspective on your current situation.

I'd just like to say that 1) I'm so sorry for your loss, and 2) your children's behaviour is not normal or okay.

They may be grieving and they may be having a hard time adjusting to the loss, but your problem goes farther than that as this was happening before your partner died.

My family has faced their own difficulties and yet, never has my mum had to "nag and shout" at me, especially repeatedly for me to help with chores or cleaning.

I do acknowledge that we aren't all equal when it comes to motivation or cleanliness/organisation but at some point, you are doing the best you can and your children refuse to help. So their ill feelings towards your situation or house are partially of their own doing.

Don't like that the house isn't decorated ? Decorate, help with projects or even bring ideas to the table.

Don't like that the house is clean ? Well you live here, so do the chores and/or cleaning when it needs to be done. Washing up/drying isn't that hard or long (although it can be unpleasant but that's what gloves are for!). Sweeping and moping are also not that hard to do. Washing and drying clothes isn't that hard to do.

My point is, even if chores are beyond mind bogglingly boring, they aren't that hard to do !

Now I've got to say that shouting and nagging probably doesn't make people want to help, at some point, if they're bothered by the house/you (as the texts seem to indicate) then they can help or stop complaining.

You can't have a bruise and poke it, just to complain that is hurts when you poke it. You either leave it alone or you don't complain when you hurt yourself.

Anyway, my whole point is you have some very entitled sounding children.

I mean, AFAIK one of your kids hasn't fed their dog in days - which is actual animal cruelty! What happens if you'd actually not fed it ? And what about it's needs ? Why are your kids not taking it out/cleaning up the messes ? My gran sold her DS pony when he did the same. Lesson learned.

Your children are being entitled.

And I think your ex partner is partially to blame. I mean, what chores did they do at his house ? Why did he not back you up during those text exchanges ? Why was your ex undermining you ?

I really hope things get better and you are able to get back on track with your life.