To be blamed for their financial situation

[Feelingfloaty22]

Last year my relative was going on a family holiday during the summer with her dc and spouse. They live in another part of the country but booked flight tickets leaving from an airport nearish to where I live. She asked if she could drive down to my area with her family so they could stay at my place the night before her flight and leave her car on my road for the week she was away. They caught an uber to the airport the next day.

She had also earlier that year got a pet that she needed to be looked after so asked me to stay at her place for the week with my dc to look after her pet whilst she was away and then I could use her house as a base to visit places near her area (she lives within driving distance of some beautiful parts of the UK to visit in the summer).

Anyway my road has permit parking which i pay the council for and as a resident I can pay for a visitor permit for someone else's car who is visiting me using a third party parking app. This was what we agreed I would do and I did this for the first couple of days. Then I ran in to a problem on the app that would not allow me to buy another visitor permit as my parking permit had supposedly expired. When i checked the council website it had not. I eventually worked out on the second day of this happening that the app date for my resident permit was not the same as the council as it started on the day I registered on the app not the day I paid for my permit. I know this is really boring but I'm getting there.

Anyway so I went back to buying resident parking permits for my dsis car. However when she got back from her trip she found that she had 3 parking tickets on her car. She was highly annoyed and blamed this on me so asked me to pay for the fines. I explained the situation and told her I would appeal it on her behalf. I sent a letter of appeal to the council for the parking fines and explained it was a technical issue preventing me from buying the visitor permit. I did not hear back from the council and thought we had a lucky escape.

A few months down the line my bil received a letter saying he had to pay the fine otherwise he would receive a CCJ. He was the registered owner of the car but i think he sold it so it took longer to contact him. However, as my bil was away for a few months for work he did not see the letter and my dsis did not open it either. Consequently the CCJ was issued and they had to pay the fine. My bil and dsis blame me saying that I should have paid for the 3 fines initially (over £100) instead of appealing it and should have followed up when i didnt get a response from the council.

I was very apologetic and offered to pay the cost of removing the CCJ (about £375). I forwarded the forms to do this to my dsis and asked her to fill in the paperwork as i did not know their personal details needed to apply to remove it. My dsis and bil decided not to remove the CCJ and instead my dsis asked me to pay the cost of the fine £200 to her. She seems to think they cant remove it but wont explain why. I said fine.

Anyway in conversations with my dsis she brings this up occasionally and blames me for ruining her h's credit rating. I normally bite my tongue but on this occasion I could not as she started to say that i had planned it. I told her that they were likely have been contacted by the council/debt recovery company/courts several times before the CCJ and they did not open their letters and see the warnings. In the past year I received 2 fines for staying in 2 separate car parks too long that I did not pay upfront. I received several letters before it got to the point of threatening me with a CCJ which spanned over at least 2 months to 3 months. So it was partially their bad administration and communication that they didn't agree some way for my dsis to check her spouses letters whilst he was away. Also I had offered to pay to remove the CCJ which would have improved her credit score and she had just wanted the money for the fine. (My dsis hates filling in forms and her h also for some reason didn't want to remove it because he thought he work would find out about it if he appealed). So the blame is partially on the 2 of them not only me because of their decision to not remove the CCJ.

My dsis flipped out on me and told me I'm jealous of her life (I'm a single mum) and that I deliberately tried to ruin her by not paying the fine (so I had planned for her to get a CCJ from last summer). She called me toxic and said that she is going non contact with me and will not speak to me till my dad's funeral.

Was I unreasonable to not pay the full fine in the first place ( I regularly appeal parking fines for myself and only pay for them if I can't get out if it so did the same thing for her)? Am I to blame for the CCJ or does she have some responsibility for it being issued? Also am I wrong to tell her that she could have the CCJ removed and improve her partners credit score again and has chosen not to because she can't be bothered to fill in a form?

From your version of the story I'd say mostly YANBU although I definitely would have chased up with the council to check they had waived the parking fines, so you were a bit naive to think you'd have no communications about that.

Having said that if you were looking after their dog and saving them £100s in both parking and kennels they could have been much more gracious about it.

Firstly it sounds as though you left it late to buy the parking permit.
Secondly My bil and dsis blame me saying that I should have followed up when i didnt get a response from the council. - they are right.
It should never have got to CCJ stage.

If she's going NC with you then no issue. Not sure what she means by 'until our father's funeral'.

Sorry for your loss.

It sounds like you play fast and loose with parking rules as a "norm". Not surprisingly you've been properly caught out here as they haven't behaved the way you expected with appeals etc.

Tricky with sister and partner not opening post but overall i think you are U to assume everyone deals with admin like you do

She’s a drama llama. Let her go NC, don’t run after her and don’t do her any favours.

YABU for not chasing up the fine with the council when you didn’t get a response, I’m sure you would of done if it was your own fine. (Your sister should have taken some responsibility for this too though).

YABU for not paying the fine in the first place.

But it’s not your fault they got a CCJ if they were ignoring multiple letters etc. You also offered to pay for it to be removed so YANBU for this.

They should have been opening the post so on thet they are at fault

However this stands out "I regularly appeal parking fines for myself and only pay for them if I can't get out if it so did the same thing for her)? "

Why are you regularly appealing parking fines just don't park there it does seem you don't really care about parking rules. So it does seem you have a laizee attitude to it all.

Maybe try to remind her that you were doing her a favour and yes there was an issue but had she paid for her own parking, accommodation before the flight and pet care then it never would have happened. It sounds like it caused you a lot of stress and hassle too all by trying to help her out. To say that she's going NC with you and making such hurtful personal comments over a parking ticket is awful. Yanbu.

To represent her view better she feels she did me a favour and saved me money in terms of accommodation in her area by letting me stay at her place for free. But I wouldn't have even needed to stay there if I wasn't looking after her pet which she didn't want to bring down to my area.

I acknowledge that I should have followed up with the council but I normally get a response from them and this time they didn't I think because I'm not connected to the car.

I do normally pay for parking fines if they are issued by the council (unless its for parking on my own road) it's just end of last year I received 2 from private companies for staying 5 minutes over in one car park and overstaying in a service station car park (didn't realise I could only stay for 2 hours). That's why I know about the appeals process. It doesn't go from 0 to 100. There are a lot of points where they give you chances to avoid a CCJ. They would not have contacted me they would have communicated with dsis and her h so the fact they didn't open their letters makes them partially to blame.

Also some further background my dsis tends to do things for others then regret it. So because she had done something for my dad and dbro recently and had come to regret it she lumped me in and acted like we are all trying to ruin her life or take advantage of her. This is why I made the comment to her that it is her bad admin and communication with her h that is to blame as well.

This.

You’re at fault for the initial parking fines, not paying them and not chasing the council.

They are at fault for not opening their post and paying it before it got to a CCJ stage.

Although what is the reason your BILs work would find out and be bothered?

I was with you until the end when you talk about how you usually get out of parking fines. Most people don't have a usual strategy for getting out of parking fines because they don't regularly get parking fines. It sounds like being disorganised is a family trait.

You all sound very irresponsible and quick to point blame, yet dont take any measures to prevent these fines/issues from being addressed.

Quite bizarre and very stupid - especially your sister. She is definitely unhinged and a special kind of bonkers.

I moved on to a road with resident permit parking about 3 years ago and have been issued fines for parking on my road 3 times. Once when I first moved on to the road and hadn't had time to apply for the resident permit. Secondly when I forgot the renewal date of my resident permit and was issued a fine. And third for when I bought a new car, parked it on my road for one day without a resident permit and was issued a fine. By the way all three were successfully appealed and I did not have to pay the fine so that's my history with parking on my road. So maybe that makes me disorganised.

The other two which I did not successfully appeal I was caught out (5 mins in the private car park) and in the service station I fell asleep in my car as I was driving back home on the motorway. I have been driving for a long time and live in a city so yeah I have got parking fines on occasion. Some I pay straight away some I appeal.

I don't understand why you didn't contact the council on the first day that you were unable to buy a visitor permit. Presumably you knew she would be given a ticket. Did you just assume that you would be able to appeal it and therefore not do anything? You say you figured out what the issue was on the second day, but as she got a 3 day fine, it sounds like you didn't address it immediately?

I also don't understand why you didn't chase the council about their lack of reply. It was weird that you just assumed that it had been resolved. However, I think it's also weird that your dsis didn't chase you about it. If I had been fined and had a finite window in which to pay the fine, I would absolutely take responsibility for getting it sorted by that date. If I knew that you had appealed on my behalf, I'd have followed this up, asking for an update.

I also don't understand why the sister didn't open her DH's letters. My DH is sometimes away for work for extended periods. We have an agreement that I open everything and send him a picture in WhatsApp of anything important. It's ridiculous to just let post pile up for weeks unopened.

Ultimately, they are 100% responsible for the CCJ, not you, so I think you should let her go NC if she likes. She sounds awful.

I think you should have followed up on the appeal so have some responsibility but they should have thought about what happens if something like this happens as you’re right that lots of letters would have been sent and this could have happened if she’d run through a red light etc.
I suspect his credit rating may have already been bad otherwise why not want the CCJ removed

She is over reacting and will hopefully calm down. It’s six of the one, half a dozen of the other on this occasion. Maybe now they’ll open their mail more regularly.

Was I unreasonable to not pay the full fine in the first place ( I regularly appeal parking fines for myself and only pay for them if I can't get out if it so did the same thing for her)?

You need to sort yourself out though.

I 100% agree I should have followed it up. I was unreasonable for that. My sis did ask me to check on it to be fair to her and I didn't as I hoped no contact from the council meant it was gone. My naivety and stupidity I agree which is why I agreed to pay for the fine.

My issue is that she keeps blaming me for the CCJ which I dont think is my fault. I just don't want to hear it for years to come that I messed up her h credit score. He has some idea that it is beneath him to appeal it and would reflect badly on him at work but I just don't understand why they would even be informed. Does anyone have experience of removing a CCJ would his work be notified?

Hang on, have I got this right. You paid for your sisters holiday parking while she was away and let her stay in your home to be closer to the airport. You then uprooted yourself to go look after her pet and allow her to have a stress free holiday? Let her go no contact, you do not deserve to be treated like this. It was not even your responsibility to pay for the fines or offer to get the CJJ removed. She’s taken the absolute piss and you deserve better.

And again, you were not unreasonable not to follow up. It was not your parking fine, it was your sisters. They should have paid it alongside paying for their own visitors permit.

So maybe that makes me disorganised

yes, totally disorganised. However, your sister has reposnsibility here. I wouldn't sit back and expect someone else to sort my fines out whatever the reason was. So irresponsible of her. But when you say she asked you to chase it and you never as you thought it had gone away...thats just daft.

But they have allowed their own credit score to be ruined, you're not to blame for them being irresponsible as well.

I think you can’t win in this scenario. If you had refused to have the car parked in your road and refused to look after her pet she would probably still have been annoyed with you. You were doing her the favour. She’s seriously taking the mick. I’d let her crack on with going NC and stop worrying about it.

I think since you failed to buy the permits as agreed, then you should have paid the fines in full as soon as they were issued. I can't really think why you felt that you needed to appeal - you knew you hadn't bought the permit, so the fines were justified. That should have been it - end of issue - no further escalation or discussion needed.

(In actual fact, I think your sister should have arranged and paid for her own parking for her holiday - but as you had agreed to do it, then you should have done so, and any fall out from you not doing so was your responsibility to fix)

I personally paid for her parking on 4 of the days she was away. I tried to buy a one week visitor permit but the app prevented me because it said I did not have a valid resident permit to buy a one week visitor permit. As I said I registered on the app after I had already bought the resident permit so didn't realise it wasn't synchronised with the one I pay the council for. Now I know I renew the resident permit on the app on a different day to the local council one. I used this as a basis of appeal because how was I to know off the bat that I had to renew them on 2 different days. As soon as I worked it out I updated it and started paying for her visitor permits again. It was a fine of over £100 so why would I pay that off the bat without first presenting the reasons why I got the fine in the first place. I don't think I was wrong to appeal it but for not following up. However if they checked their letters they would never have got a ccj and I would just have paid the fine when I realised my appeal was not accepted.

They should have been opening the post so on thet they are at fault

This. For a parking fine to get to this stage would take a long period of letters /fines going unanswered.

Also - have you ever seen any evidence of the subsequent letters and CCJ?

Are you sure this isn't a story they've concocted to get money out of you (the asking for the money instead of getting you to organise having the CCJ removed sounds suspect to me)
Your dsis sounds like a drama queen who enjoys making you feel bad - are you sure she's not doing this deliberately?

Either way, she's a nasty cow. If it's all happened how you said it sounds like a genuine mistake and you've tried to sort it out afterwards. Tell her to get lost.

Those saying you must be disorganised to get parking fines, are deluded. I was recently issued a £100 fine for parking in a pub carpark when I went to a friends wake, the system wasn't working properly. There are regular complaints of parking fines being issued unreasonably, machines not working etc. in our area. The national companies who run parking schemes are avaricious and sneaky, warning signs are unlit in dark carparks when people will be using pubs in the evenings, installation of these schemes are unannounced, we are meant to fall into their traps so they make money from unwary parkers.
You are not to blame, you did her a favour to your best ability, your sister and bil should open their post.