Talking to the school tomorrow...

[sparklins]

Hi, I'm hoping for an outside opinion as I have never dealt with a situation like this before and don't want to be ''that parent''.

All the kids involved are primary age.

My DS (7) got into an altercation today after school at the community playground. He was playing football with a mixed year group and at one point a couple of older boys from his school started tripping him up and pushing him over. He said he tried to stand up for himself and one of the boys strangled him/put his hands around his throat and the other hit him in the face hard enough to make him fall over and apparently he got up and hit one of them back at which point they got broken up by another boy and then dispersed to go home.

DS is fine, he did have a red mark on his face but it is now faded. He was at the park with a DGP who at the time was supervising a younger sibling at the playpark so had his back to DS and did not see the altercation take place.
As far as I am aware the other parents did not see anything as the football pitch is a little off to the side and parents are generally supervising the little ones on the playground.

I do not know the parents of the other boys although I do know who the boys are. DS seems to think this happened because he tackled them a couple of times whilst playing football.

I feel like this is something I should bring to the attention of the school since they all attend there and I do not want anything further to happen between DS and them. I feel no matter what happened it is unacceptable for older boys to hit someone younger than them and I would like to get to the bottom of what exactly happened however I do not know how to approach this in the best way.

I definitely do not want to approach the parents directly but I also don't want to go in and cause drama with the headteacher.

I feel rather out of my depth and don't know how to word what I am trying to get across.
Would anyone be kind enough to give me a bit of advice on the best course of action?

I work in a school office and we spend so much time dealing with messages from parents regarding things that happen out of school. Even worse is the many members of the public who call or email about children's behaviour in shops, buses, the street etc. Half the time they don't even know if they are our pupils, if it happened out of school hours it needs to be the police that are called. If it's a bullying issue that is also happening in school then I would let the school know.

Absolutely not a school matter. Tell them for their info if you like but please do not expect them to take any steps to deal with it.

I'd say your options are to contact the parents directly, contact the police, or just learn from it and make sure the child is very well supervised when at play parks etc.

@RubyJack if you are a head teacher then you have a very different approach to the head teachers I’ve known who want to understand the issues that happen outside of school that may flow into school - stops them being blindsided! Example, class WhatsApp in Year 9 a boy shared hard core porn under the guise of a makeup video. I let the school know and the school were amazing, camping in the boy’s parents, sanctions implemented and there’s not been any further issues 18 months later.

a dc being strangled and punched in the park by another student is definitely useful information for a school to be aware of and not so you can do a vague assemble. Dc wellbeing and safeguarding is everyone’s business and to get the full picture that’s not only 9-3.

Report to the school and advise them that you are concerned the bullying started there. Then speak to your local PCSO and report the attack on your child. They can get the contact details of the parents from the school.

I can't believe people are so dramatic. The kid is fine, he has not even got a single mark on him and isn't particularly upset but you think they should call the police? Jesus Christ.

Maybe I am different but I certainly am a very experienced Headteacher, there is no if about it.
I have at no point said I wouldn't care,I have said I would want to know and would keep an eye out .If any problems arose in school they would certainly be dealt with very swiftly.
I have said I would discuss in assemblies if necessary,YOU have decided they are vague without attending one.
The example you give above about Y9 would obviously be a safeguarding issue and protocol would be followed.We have a strong safeguarding team.We don't have Year 9 ,our children are MUCH younger than that.
That type of incident wasn't what the OP was asking for advice about .The park fallouts are very frequent and time consuming and full of he said/she said.
You don't know me or what type of Headteacher I am .Those who do know me know that I deal with all issues in an appropriate and caring manner. Your Y9 incident and the one on the OP post are incomparable and my advice and actions around the hard core porn concern would have been different.
The strangling/tackling/punching incident currently is a one sided report. Unfortunately it appears there were no adult witnesses and therefore my action would be to be aware of the situation,alert staff to the situation and deal with any incidents that occurred during the school day.
Having attended CIN/Strategy /Safeguarding meetings till 6.30 pm tonight I can confidently say that no,my responsibility doesn't end at 3pm.
I am not sure why you have taken against me. Would you expect me to have a full blown investigation?
Actually don't worry about taking time to respond.I am sure that you have made up your mind about me and I am fine with that.
The parents /carers and children in my real life are the ones whose opinions I value.

@RubyJack maybe you didn’t realise how your tone came across. When dc we’re at primary I always worried whether to bother the school about trivial stuff but the head would send messages to parents reassuring us and asking us to update teachers on anything we become aware of that may impact our child’s well-being to help them with the full picture. Your post would put parents off doing that because you implied (the way I read it) like parents shouldn’t be bothering you with stuff from outside school.

The op is worried about the safety of her dc when in school with these dc who attacked him. Of course school needs to be aware but from your post I wouldn’t have felt that was the case.

@RubyJack

Thank goodness my kids don't go to your school.

You really do come across as disinterested.

Our som experienced online abuse from " friends " that reached the threshold of criminality.

It would have been so easy for school to distance themselves but they did the opposite. Actively supported our son and took such good care of him pastorally.

If they hadn't his mental health would have suffered badly. I will never be able to thank them enough for dealing with the situation. They kept him psychologically safe and didn't respond with "its not on our turf jack".

That's the problem with the written word.
It can be interpreted in different ways.I felt your post was a attack on me but perhaps that wasn't your intention.
I am always available at the start and end of each day to speak to parents in the playground or privately if needed.
I am not unkind or unapproachable and believe me I know about everything that goes on in our area.
I offer support constantly in a variety of areas.
It has become extremely time consuming dealing with all the arguments from the evenings before ,particularly without witnesses.
We record it all,watch out for issues but no,I don't give out punishments for incidents with no witnesses like the case mentioned.
Each incident reported is dealt with individually and the one you mentioned would have been resolved swiftly.I.am sure there would have been evidence to make that possible.
Anyway, have a good evening...morning now I suppose.

Your situation is totally different to the one in the OP and your son would have been totally supported.
We have supported children through situations like your son experienced.We have counselling available and appointed staff members to support too.
I was trying to say, obviously not very well ,that the falling out in the park type incidents are constant,time consuming and difficult to prove who did or said what if there are no adults present/supervising.
Any concerns the OP had would have been noted and her son would have a close eye kept on him
I don't really understand why parents won't have a conversation with another parent,unless that parent is known to be aggressive or dangerous.
I hope your son is doing well now.

@RubyJack
You have nothing to apologize for, and your posts are professional and unemotional (contrary to the hyperbole of "strangling" etc from others)

Our kids are older (secondary) but I'm just wondering in what parallel universe a grandparent omitting to keep an eye on a child in a public place to the point that the child got into a fight/was strangled (depending on your point of view) becomes an internal matter for the school beyond, as you have said, a "thanks for letting us know" and, all other things being equal, a quick word to relevant class teachers (though of course the OP doesn't know who they are I presume).

I'm doing a safeguarding session on the 10th July with some NQTs. I might use this as an example and see what they come up with.

The OP doesn't want to 'complain' but to make the school aware:

I feel like this is something I should bring to the attention of the school since they all attend there and I do not want anything further to happen between DS and them

Surely where there's a risk of this crossing over into school it's good to at least be aware? Surely a quick conversation where you make it clear outside of school isn't your realm but you'll make the teachers aware is fine? Or is that too much effort? A child being strangled by another isn't exactly petty drama.

From OPs post that's what they're expecting from school though, just letting them know in case.

Tell ds if this happens (being tripped up)
To leave and tell the adult (dgp)

"Standing up " to older bigger kids is not going to end well
Self defence courses teach you to remove yourself from a situation as first option

‘Strangling’ is taken directly from the OP though.

I agree it’s likely hyperbolic as she says there are no marks on the child’s neck but I have to say as an experienced senior leader in schools it would be a red flag if a child put their hands around another’s neck. As a pp said it is a learned behaviour and a much more serious incident than a typical playground scuffle.

My approach is, if my workmate did it to me in the office what would I/anyone do? Clearly in an office, between adults (or at a hideous company team building sports event or something) it would be treated as assault, they'd be charged probably, police would be called asap, the person who did it would likely be fired.

So yea, police, immediately.

You could make them aware but the school has no jurisdiction over what happens out of school.

Just out of interest, how do you know it is hyperbole? OP said strangling in her post. Genuine question...

Exactly. Which is why many posters told her that she should approach the police. In subsequent posts she downgraded it to a scuffle.

We are in agreement! I’m simply saying that pp are not guilty of hyperbole when they are only
taking their cue from the OP herself.

Yep I concur.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to just make his form teacher aware but the school can’t actively get involved in things that happen out of school, unless it makes up part of a bigger picture that’s also occurs inside school, with bullying for example. Then the outside stuff forms part of a jigsaw with all the pieces having relevance.

I would let his teacher know. It might have shaken his confidence a bit, or he might go looking for revenge in the playground

It might be a good school assembly point to remind children about managing their anger while playing, especially with the heat and long evenings currently.

Obviously this is not a police matter. Kids scuffling briefly while playing in the park isn't criminal; it's a normal childhood experience.

And how brilliant it was that another child broke up the incident. That is also worth telling school about, because it's a great example to other kids.

I have made several posts explaining I would want to know and would support.Some people haven't read all I have to say.
It is break time and I am just checking in on the post incase anyone thinks I should be working.

Don't speak to the parents. Speak to school

You do know the children are all below the age of criminal responsibility right! How do you see this police report panning out? Do you think they are going to go an arrest a 9 year old?