to be utterly fed up with school refusal (DD7)

[itsmellslikepopcarn]

Posting here for traffic because I need advice please! DD7 has never been one of those kids who jump out of bed and merrily make their way to school; we’ve always had stages where she doesn’t want to go, but only a handful of days here and there. We’ve currently had weeks on end of crying, screaming, refusing to get ready for school and standing her ground when it’s time to actually walk in.

I’ve tried being nice about it, talking to her about what she’s finding difficult about school; she says she has no friends and finds the work hard, but when I talk to school they say she’s very popular and is achieving higher than average in most of her subjects. I’ve tried saying “no, it’s time for school now. Put your uniform on now.” and being strict about it, but neither the nice or authoritative way works.

the kicker is is that I split contact with her Dad 50/50, and she only does this at home with me. At her dads she gets up no problem, occasionally tells him she doesn’t feel well but doesn’t make a fuss going in. I work from home so I’m wondering if that’s the issue, when she is actually ill she’s always here at home, so maybe she thinks she’ll get more luck here? Or am I being too soft with her?

looking for advice because I’m honestly at a loss for what to do. I hate the idea of sending her into school upset, this week school have told me to leave whilst she’s stood at the door shouting for me and I’m trying to make it to the car before bursting into tears. I regularly keep in contact with school and for the most part they tell me she settles in quickly, has a good day and doesn’t mention going home. It’s just the morning routine and getting her in that’s the issue. Any advice is really appreciated!

Plus all the extra activities that she's started and dropped quickly is just a very typical thing whereby small child wants to try something, followed by small child doesn't like it anymore and wants to stop doing it. If they were her idea to start with obviously

l don’t think they are . My ds went to lots of after school stuff and carried on.

My then unknown ASD Dd tried loads. But never stuck at any. Didn’t like the teacher/people/no one spoke to her etc etc. She must have tried about 10.

Yes agree with @ArseInTheCoOpWindow and 7 is about the start of the age where some kids will realise that they aren’t enjoying things and start to refuse. The fact that it takes so much effort to get them to the extras - that’s not a kid that is having a good time.

and so sorry to hear so many hard stories about how awful things are for many families.

and absolutely, always trust your own instincts over anything else. Everyone else has some sort of vested interest or is projecting and you are the only person that is squarely focusing on the best interests of your child, 100 percent.

The clubs may not work as your dd doesn’t want to be left. I know @MMorales cited my post but my dd mostly went to clubs, where I could stay. She would not accept to be left. It took her a while to settle at rainbows and I stayed for several weeks, first inside the room, then outside. She got fed up with that after a few months as it wasn’t active enough. I tried this with dancing and it didn’t work but we went back to it when she was 7 - dd’s issues were year 1.

I would focus on things you can stay at, as in where you can stay and watch and your dd can see you. My dd did judo, swimming in a very small group at a private pool in a house, horse riding, rugby. The other key thing for her was going with a friend. The only anomaly there was rugby but there were a bunch of boys there from school so it worked and she’s always had male and female friends. Then once she’d accepted to go inside a room alone with dancing, she also wanted to go to gymnastics. In the beginning, I would sit and wait outside the door at both.

This all really helped her loads with her confidence. She went from being very difficult to get to school with an odd day off to finding transitions to the following years stressful and struggling to go in. By the end of primary, even this had abated, she was very skilled at making friends and ‘popular’ - not in the mean girl sense of the word and the anxiety had subsided.

It’s not a court ordered 50/50, it used to be 2 night a week but DD requested more and now it’s split equally. It does work on a level as she has very good relationship with Dad, but he works shifts so it’s never set times or days; sometimes he has her 4 nights in a row, sometimes it’s every other day across the week so it’s hard to get into a routine with her and could be unsettling her. Relationship with me and dad is good now, we can get along and attend things together for school, etc, but I know us not being together still affects DD as she questions every once in a while why we can’t back together.

as for clubs, she stuck out swimming a lot longer as I stayed to watch, dancing there was no option to which I know she didn’t like, even though i stayed in the car outside. She’s asking about gymnastics and I will try to find one where I can stay.

I appreciate everyone’s suggestions about ND but I think with DD she is just highly sensitive, like me. It doesn’t take much to make her cry and she feels her emotions very deeply. She’s also extroverted, has no problems in crowds, or loud noises, smells etc. I do think she could be crying out for more quality time and attention from me, having a small business I do have a tendency to “be on” for work, emails at all times of the day, so I’m going to really make a conscious effort to get it all done for when she’s at school and then sign off and spend more quality time with her. I will of course keep my mind open to the possibility of Nd and have her assessed if I feel it’s necessary.

My DD9 had a few months of this recently. No issues at school that me or the school could see, happy during the day, no hint of bullying, on target for learning with no concerns. I do work from home and she loves being at home so I think that is basically the issue. I have stood firm with her on going and she seems to have come out the other side now. A few grumbles in the morning but nothing major. If you can just keep her going until summer and then remind her she has a big summer break coming up. She's probably ready for it

Have you considered the possibility that you could both be ND? I would be doing all assessments sooner rather than later as if ND is the underlying issue then you could run into real difficulty especially in secondary when a lot of children who masked reasonably successfully when they were younger, completely fall apart. Also, schools are really not very skilled at spotting ND and especially in girls who are good maskers. You really do need to speak with people who are very knowledgeable in this area if you want to really understand what might be going on.

She's anxious and had her family broken up.

Surely this is the resulting outcome? No routine. No regular idea of what's happening today.

I know lots of people split up with the fathers of their kids these days, we normalise it almost, but it's still incredibly disruptive for children. I think the only solution is to make the Dad commit to a routine and keep it so she gets on an even keel. Also for mum to spend more quality time with her to reassure her.

with DD she is just highly sensitive, like me. It doesn’t take much to make her cry and she feels her emotions very deeply. She’s also extroverted, has no problems in crowds, or loud noises, smells etc

l thought my dd was just highly sensitive. She was also extroverted and could cope with crowds etc. Still ASD now and won’t go to school due to burnout.

l wish I’d got her tested when l first though she was highly sensitive. She’d probably be in school now. But at 17 she couldn’t cope with Y12

Very good advice.

one of my autistic DDs is an extrovert too but in a couple of years waiting lists could be shorter, and you’ll have more evidence - and it sounds as though school is being reasonably supportive?

a lot of us are battered by 2 to 3 year waiting lists whilst our children got more and more distressed.

Something that works with my DD is having a plan for after school so she knows what is happening.

It is usually something with me. Playing Lego, a board game, me reading, etc. On a Tuesday (the day she dislikes) most it is a treat like an ice lolly (currently) or a hot chocolate, etc.

I really feel for you; my DD started to refuse school age 12/ year 8. We have since found out she has autism and couldnt cope with mainstream secondary .
You are her safe person so she probably cant communicate it to her dad, it also might be that if she manages 3 days shes absolutely spent and overwhelmed by second half of week.
Definetely keep talking to school, ask for pastoral care and support to be put in place. keep a record of everything; if you rule out obvious causes such as bullying and support school puts in place doesnt work, then its very possible she has undiagnosed SEN, read up on autism in girls.
Ask school about this too and about an EHCP. Often its cant go to school not wont.
Need to very curious about whats going on, people are often quick to judge but unless youve been through it , its hard to understand.

Honestly, l don’t want to say this, but l would try and get her assessed asap.

Otherwise it will get much bigger in KS3 or 4

This. This is my child now.

I agree.

But she us fine at school! She us playing the op like a fiddle!

And mine.

Many parents with this issue will direct you towards asd or mental health. They will tell you to stop forcing her in. I would be careful of this route or approach. It often leads to kids being more entrenched. They know their parent has already decided they don't have to go and they therefore become permanently out of school.

I tried to persuade mine to go in, and got forceful once. She ended up in A and E after self harming. I’d never do it again. They aren’t being defiant, they just can’t cope with school.

Yeah I agree with arse it depends - some kids do need coaxing, firmer routine and a few adjustments and they’ll be ok and for others, it’s the wrong approach and you spend a lot of time looking back and wishing you’d trusted your gut sooner and replaying every thing you think you did wrong.

I think it’s a really tricky line tbh. My dd was only year 1 when it happened and carried on to a degree in years 2 and 3. I resolved it with info I’ve already posted and paying a child psychologist, who was brilliant. I think it helped that she was younger and therefore more malleable. The moment she said she didn’t want to go to her secondary school anymore I got her into a private school of her choice - start of year 9. I’d already seen that it wasn’t working on an educational level as she wasn’t really learning much and definitely not being herself.

Not everyone has the time, money or general resources to throw at keeping their child in school. It’s hard. And some have SEN so whatever they do it won’t work.

Snap.

I didn't give up and decide they weren't to go in. I also wasn't the one who suggested mental health or asd- that was at the suggestion of the CAHMs crisis team after ending up and A&E.

That's what I used to think. School sees what they want to see.
This may well be a blip that op has got to the bottom of very quickly and it may never happen again. I hope so.
But the problem is that there are no support mechanisms for children who genuinely struggle in school.
A child's default position is to want to please everyone around them, they're very good at repeatedly papering over the cracks. And as a society, we ignore and minimise any signs of mental fragility in children until it's far too late and long term damage is done, and often far past this point.
If a child feels safer and happier at home than in school, they are not fine in school.
Imagine schools response if a child was refusing to go home.

I have a school refused, I was surprised to see when I started reading up on it that the first piece of advice is to screen for ASD.

I think the arrangement with her dad is probably unsettling her, whether she has ASD or not I think this must be difficult to cope with. I know I couldn't cope living in two places. She may not realise herself why she is unsettled, or she may be unwilling to say anything as she does not want to upset dad.

I'd suggest trying a more stable arrangement for a few weeks and see if she improves.

The fact she is only like this with you does NOT mean she's ok with Dad. It just means you are her primary attachment and she is more secure with you. My DS has struggled with his mental health for some time but will only ever express this to me, never his dad.

Could your dd be worrying about you during the day OP? I say this as EBSA has a myriad of causes but I haven’t seen anyone ask this upthread. Apologies if they have.

I shouldn’t think for one moment that she is ‘playing you’. All behaviour is communication and she is trying to tell you something.