Shitty men

[ohjeesus]

why do so many women choose shitty men?
i just don’t understand it!

YABU some women are fools
YANBU fuck them

Some men aren't shitty until wayyyy after the relationship starts

Loads of factors involved in women choosing shitty men. Their dad's behaviour. Any other toxic male influence on their life growing up. Repeating relationship patterns of their parents, self esteem issues, the list is endless.

But no woman sets out to be treated like shit and it is difficult for them to spot the red flags before it's too late.

It's almost like you think it's their fault

Start your own thread. This was not what the OP asked.

Indeed!

Yep!

I think it’s often when kids come along. The workload and lack of time is a 180 from just being a couple. So someone may not notice so much when they are doing a bit more of the domestic chores etc.

You have kids and all of a sudden you notice what a lazy fucker you married.

I often read mumsnet in an absolute fury at the state of some men. Just genuinely aghast at the sheer laziness and childishness.

And why do women choose them?

We can't control what others do. We can control what we do.

The state of your comment and misandry here!!! Wow.

My XH of 20 yrs turned into a shitty man around year 10 of our marriage.

I put up with the shit for the sake of our kids. When he cheated the third time, I was done and the kids were mature enough to deal with the separation.

It's very, very hard to take your heart back when you realise you made a mistake and the person isn't who you thought they were. Some people can't accept that they fell in love with someone who didn't exist and insist they can still see the good.

It's incredibly frustrating, especially when kids are involved and they insist he's a great dad.

Lots of reasons, I often consider going back to my ex even though he is “shitty”
life would be easier if I did though…

A lot of women grow up as girls surrounded by women with shitty male partners and simply do not have a good reference range to spot the red flags.

They think its normal for a bloke to laze around and not deal with their own children, because that's what their dad/uncle/brother/neighbour etc did.

They lack confidence and self worth, sometimes have grown up in cultures (including segments of british society) where women are valued based on their husband/partner and genuinely don't see themselves as deserving of something better.

Because they don't show they're shitty at first. Or you've been brainwashed by society about your ticking biological clock that you settle.

And for those of us a bit longer in the tooth, red flags were not a thing. You just put up with the bits of crap as the overall package was bearable.

I had several red flags during our engagement, I just saw them as "that's how men are", as that was the deal back then.

I'm so much more picky second time around. Happier being single than putting up with man crap.

In my case , and I've dated so many red flags I could run a line of bunting up ! It's that they are clever at disguising their issues/faults/quirks .. so what starts out to appear genuine turns into something that makes you realise there is more unpleasant behaviour from them .. but by then they've become i trenched in your life and sometimes heart !

I think there are two pretty good ways to determine how a man will measure up as a life partner - how he treats his mother, and what his mates are like. Not foolproof but fairly good indicators.

It’s down to the particular men if they’re shitty - it’s not the women’s fault that they are.

The answer to your question is that often women don’t choose shitty men - they show their true colours later on, esp in pregnancy or once a baby is born.

Some do of course but then probably because at some point they’ve learned not to value themselves highly

Sometimes you can get as long as a good decade before they show their true shitty colours, or having children causes some of them to become shit.

I claim House too for the typical militant feminist post. 😂

because no one was taught how to choose a good man/woman and many fail to learn from their experiences.

I found mumsnet because when hubby and I had little arugument, I wanted some advise. The more I read the more I realise how lucky I am, the small problems we have are nothing compared with the depressing stories I read here.

While my instinct is to roll my eyes and say, "oh god, more victim blaming" to this question, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and suggest a few things:

1. (probably one of the most important/prevalent ones): they don't know the man is shitty. The shitty behaviour is hidden or irrelevant during the loved up honeymoon phase of a relationship.
2. Poor behaviour by men is often dismissed by society at large. Just see how often on here posters come on to ask if they're unreasonable because of a situation and they mention that their mum/sister/friends have said some version of, "oh, that's just men, let it go" or "you should be grateful if this is your main complaint". Standards for men are low.
3. Similarly, waaaay too many people (men and women) think that red flag behaviour is in fact GOOD. The man who doesn't take no for an answer (ah, he's so in love. You should give him a chance) etc
4. women have been taught they should be grateful for attention and kindness and that they are responsible for making other people happy. So they feel that if something is happening, it must be their fault/they contributed. Again, see endless posts from women that start with, "I know that I'm not easy to live with but ...." and then go on to describe hideous behaviour. 10 posts later, she's still saying, "but maybe if I wasn't always so tired, he'd be nicer to me".
5. Men are often brought up to expect their wants and preferences to be prioritised and/or not to have to do the hard work. In the early days of a relationship, this isn't a problem. Even if women do ask the questions about "what if" too often either the man lies ("of course I'll do my share of the childcare, I can't wait for this journey with you"), dismisses her, ("relax, you're being hysterical. we'll figure it all out in due course") or genuinely believes that he'll be brilliant, with zero understanding of what the reality is.
6. Many many women are still penalised if they're single. constant questions, judgements etc from family members/friends/colleagues. "jokes" about being "high maintenance" etc. And THOSE women are often the most vulnerable once they ARE in a relationship because they know that they will be blamed and judged if the relationship ends.

There are probably a million other things but these are just a few.

A better question is "why as a society are we not making more effort to ensure girls and women know what their own worth is? And why aren't we jumping on shitty behaviour from boys and men each and every time?"

This, almost every time. Anyone who starts off shitty is likely to stay on their own, or does anyone think that shitty people are never anything but shitty?

And because they're capable of being charming and lovely etc, they will be, to people who matter to them, their boss, their church or group leaders etc. So noone will believe you when you say "but he's so shitty". If he's shitty to you, that's enough. Leave.

Agree. You make your own choices.

I think 'some' women are attracted to shitty men right from the start - these kind of blokes often have all the red flags flying for most women, (big alcohol issues, drugs, gambling, debt, tightness or the opposite - proliferate spender) but the woman doesn't care because these things don't bother her 'at that time' and for others the men only turn shitty much further down the line- by which point there are often kids and homes and jobs/businesses in the mix . Same is true of shitty women too of course !!

But what about the women who have it all laid out in front of them and still go for it. Thinking here of my ex, with his domestic violence conviction, not seen DC in 4 years, 2 years in court, contact centre, other 2 month old baby from a 'brief relationship' acrimonious relationship with both mothers. Well documented mental health problems. etc etc. His new flame, with vulnerable children, still skipped off to the supervised visits with the contact centre staff as soon as she could.

Before anyone suggests, I met him very young before any of this stuff was an issue.