Question for English teachers

[WinterCarlisle]

This is something that’s been bugging me since I was at secondary school.

WHY are so many of the set texts so bloody depressing? When I was at school (mid to late 80s) we did A Kestrel for a Knave which was pretty tragic swiftly followed by Z for Zachariah which was utterly terrifying. They were no fun AT ALL to real and tbh I’m still a bit traumatised <dramatic>.

My DS is 13 and has just finished The Boy in The Striped Pyjamas and they’ve now moved onto A Monster Calls. He’s quite a sensitive boy and he’s really not liking the second one at all, especially as a family friend recently died of cancer in her mid 40s.

Obviously I understand that they need to explore different themes and life isn’t all jolly but AIBU that maybe a few cheerful books might encourage them to read a bit more rather than DOOOOOOOMMMMM??

So:

YABU - Buck up kids, stop being Wet Hens and just read about life’s depressing abyss

YANBU - There’s enough doom and gloom already in this world. Let’s read some cheerful, yet literary books while we’re at school

Historically is completely inaccurate. Bruno would not have been able to get anywhere near the fence for the camp let alone sneak into it. Shmuel would have been murdered the moment he arrived. It also encourages the readers to feel sympathy for Bruno and his family (nazi camp commanders).

this link explains it better

hcn.org.uK/blog/the-problem-with-the-boy-in-the-striped-pyjamas/

https://hcn.org.uk/blog/the-problem-with-the-boy-in-the-striped-pyjamas/

with it actually linked now

Currently in the process of trying to bring more joy in at KS3 because tbh the GCSE spec is relentless (and Language is stupid). A level also a bit much at times but they get a lot out of it.

Happy to suggest books!

Off the top of my head, I've found these to be good texts - both from my own experience and from seeing them taught by other people, for varying school settings/levels of ability:

For Year 7:
Pax by Sara Pennypacker
Apple and Rain by Sarah Crossan (anything by her is good)
Witch Child by Celia Rees
The Ruby in the Smoke by Philip Pullman
Coraline by Neil Gaiman
Rooftoppers by Katherine Rundell
Lightning Mary by Anthea Simmons
Wolf Hollow or Beyond the Bright Sea by Lauren Wolk
Chinese Cinderella by Adeline Yen Mah

Year 8:
A Gathering Light by Jennifer Donnelly
Salt to the Sea or Between Shades of Grey by Ruta Sepetys
The Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman
Uncle Montague's Tales of Terror by Chris Priestley
The Poet X by Elizabeth Acevedo
Where the World Ends by Geraldine McCaughrean
Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein (this is part of a fab series, so you can start them off by teaching the first book, then they can read the rest independently)

Year 9:
Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier
Clap When You Land by Elizabeth Acevedo
I Know Where the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
The Way I Live Now by Meg Rosoff
Agnes Grey by Anne Bronte
We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson
Roald Dahl short stories
Some of the more exciting Agatha Christies - Death on the Nile, Murder on the Orient Express, etc
Anita and Me by Meera Syal

I always try and teach texts the kids wouldn't pick up and read independently, so I'd never teach Northern Lights, The Hunger Games, Divergent, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, etc - I know some schools do with much success, but personally I prefer to introduce them to texts they'd probably not otherwise come across.

A really good place to find inspiration is the Carnegie award shortlist/longlist. I always read a few every year and usually find something new to try.

As I said, I agree with you on doing the classics too early, and on OMAM. You won't get me to agree on Dickens. Morally and politically he has real lessons for us all. The only Dickens I teach in a school setting though are ACC and OT. My other DS did Great Expectations for GCSE and hated the experience. I also think Animal Farm is taught too early in a lot of schools. The simplicity of the language is belies its content and darkness.

What I mean by disservice was your (for want of a better word) tone, for want of a better expression - yes, there is a recruitment crisis. But lots of us remain who are enthusiastic, thoughtful and well read. My focus wasn't really on the fact that I love ACC but that the students loved its ending and its put the world to right message. Some of the books being dismissed here genuinely are adored (or at least enjoyed)by the majority of students.

My school begins at year 9, though, so I am cushioned a bit against what they do in younger years. Age appropriateness is a big concern of mine. 100% agree about that. Barbara Bleiman is quite vocal about this.

Mainly, what has changed is the obsessions with assessment, squashing out any reading for reading's sake. The joy ahs gone , and that can be found in gloomy texts too. It's led to kids only doing things is there is a test and teachers only teaching tings in such a way that suits an end of half term assessment. The creative approaches are sneered at by lots of school leaders and educationalists.

We don't have to agree! I am very happy for other people to love Dickens. I will never be persuaded to, but I respect other people's love for him!

That being said, your experience of teaching ACC to a GCSE set is going to be very different from teaching it to Year 7, which is where it appears in a large number of school curricula. I don't think many Year 7s genuinely find ACC engaging and there are much better books to read at that age that are also morally complex and provide scope for debate, but which offer more accessible language and a more contemporary feeling setting.

I apologise if you found my tone offensive. I think I am rather jaded from my experiences as a trainer across many, many schools where I see a lot of poorly qualified English teachers, a huge amount of uninspiring teaching, and a lack of engagement with and curiosity about the latest writing for young people. I know there are many, many fabulous and hard working English teachers out there who love literature and are inspirational for their students. I like to think I am one of them. 😂But most teachers have quite limited experience of what goes on outside the walls of their schools, so I do think it's important to be truthful about what is going on more widely in English teaching. I am lucky to be in a position to both teach and train, so I see much more than just the practice of my own department - and I'm sorry to say that it is a bleak picture out there for English teaching, and your own expertise and enthusiasm is sadly not echoed in many other settings. Academy schools are the worst - teaching resources created by Head Offices and rolled out to schools so that each class is taught exactly the same thing, with little to no creative input from class teachers, constant tests and assessments, an obsessive focus on either 'skills' or 'knowledge', with no room for creativity or independence, GCSE starting in Year 9 so kids are taught the same book for three years running to ensure they can parrot a grade 5 or above answer in their exam - I could go on.

However, thank you for reminding me that there are passionate and engaged teachers out there, too. Barbara Bellman is wonderful, isn't she? Such a brilliant advocate for what English teaching really should be.

Yes, she is , definitely.

I no longer teach English, focusing on my other subjects and it is so much more fun. And the autonomy is fabulous.

Another Barbara and EMC in general fan.

@Skyblue92 thank you!

@Kanaloa I agree that it's perfectly possible to teach the portrayal of Curly's wife in a way that students understand Steinbeck was commenting on the invisibility of women's rights in the pursuit of the Great American Dream. But you could set that alongside a book like Sister Noon by Karen Joy Fowler - a massively under-rated author. Or Little Fires by Celeste Ng which is easy to read but says so much about the Great American Dream, female empowerment, racial inequality and male entitlement without being totally depressing. OMAM is a brilliant book, but when you have that and R&J and Inspector Calls and the Conflict poetry - all brilliant but all so depressing, it's no wonder they find English a joyless subject. There should be a balance.

@EnidSpyton

Teaching is a vocation snd those curious teachers out there will always want to try and seek to improve, question and do things better.

Unfortunately those in it for a job won't.

OMAM isn't part of GCSE anymore. Hence the discussion about moving it to younger children.

winewolfhowls · Yesterday 22:37
The trouble is that curriculum time is limited and there aren't enough shorter yet still engaging and relevant texts. Perhaps the exam boards should have a competition and invite famous authors to write a shorter novel.

Yes, I agree. There are lots of good short stories out there. The short story is an overlooked genre, I think, which is great for the crowded curriculum nowadays. It's also a better model for children's writing in KS2 and KS3 than long novels. Or novellas such as Animal Farm would work - it's brilliant satire and superbly written. Also it allows for enjoyment on both a literal and an allegorical level so great for the whole ability range.

I used to teach English and I've also worked in a school library and I agree that the current fashion in set books seems to be very depressing and heavy. I've often thought that the subversive aim of the current English curriculum and exam syllabuses/syllabi/syllabub is to put youngsters off reading completely.

I don't know about the 'dead white men' moans. The novel was a genre which women really took up and excelled at, so please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! My exam texts introduced me to Thomas Hardy, whose work became a lifelong pleasure for me. George Eliot's, the Brontes, Jane Austen, of course, Wilkie Collins - all wrote works which are panoramic in character, showing the times and social situation with a mix of tragedy and humour.

That's the problem with modern novels, I think. The novel was the 19th century genre, just as drama had been the genre of the Renaissance, Because we all have less time and inclination now to sit and read doorstop-sized Victorian novels, writers produce shorter (and frankly often lightweight) texts which, like the old joke about a takeaway meal, are quick to read but very soon forgotten. And they tend to try to make up for the necessary brevity by trying to be portentous...which often translates in practical terms as depressing and bleak.

I think with some introduction even 21st century youngsters would enjoy the brilliant story-telling, romantic settings and characterisation of Thomas Hardy. He was also brilliant at portraying women and the predicament of the poor in a rigid class-stratified society, so he didn't shy away from harsh reality, but leavened it with his humour and insight.

Possibly Dickens...Great Expectations is superb...but very dense for modern tastes. I wouldn't deny that Dickens is a genius but I loathe his twee portrayal of women.

An interesting choice to have The Midwich Cuckoos -which has been contemptuously ruined by so many film makers over the years but is a terrific story .

I love John Wyndham’s books, like the “sci fi” stories of Philip K Dick, and Isaac Asimov, they are remarkably prescient and thoughtful about how people respond to disaster, to conflict, to changing social situations. I would imagine them being quite accessible to many children. They are also quite short, often more novellas than novels. And a lot of short stories to tie into a bundle! The JW that I think would resonate is The Chrysalids where the main characters are teenagers, gifted or cursed with a genetic anomaly that in a post apocalyptic world where difference is frowned upon are targeted and threatened.

Another author worth considering is Shirley Jackson, her short stories are extraordinary, most people would recognise The Lottery, but she wrote many more, and several novels, I think my favourite is We have Always Lived in the Castle, which is very layered, perhaps more for KS4 than KS3 though. And the House on the Hill, to scare them a bit and show how language alone can unsettle us, we don’t need special effects or scarey music.

I hate Hardy @CoffeeCantata 😂. Seven pages to describe a blade of grass!

You make really interesting points about genre - I'd not actually considered that.

English teacher here, and I absolutely agree. I work with kids who have a range of mental health difficulties, and it really brings it home to you how triggering some of the texts are.

Lord of the Flies, Of Mice and Men, Power and Conflict poetry, An Inspector Calls…lots of murder, suicide, war…it goes on.

I think one thing many people (especially those who are great readers themselves) don’t really understand is that, when you teach English, maybe 4 or 5 kids in the class are readers. Maybe. Probably half the class won’t be. Or if they are, they’ll be readers of YA series or manga novels. A lot of people (I noticed this in training) kind of think teaching English will be like a uni seminar or something from Dead Poet’s Society, with passionate discussions of Dickens and poetry. But in fact, it’s a core subject which is mandatory for all students. That means a huge number of them won’t really be interested in literature or English as a subject. Setting a text like Great Expectations or Thomas Hardy novels, which are really hard to read, would be almost impossible, because more than half the class would be instantly turned off by the difficult language and sheer length.

I will disagree with you on the modern novel though - I think there is much to be said for a lot of shorter modern novels. Lots of people sneer at them, but a lot of them are as well written or significantly better written than a Dickens tome.

I mean something like Camus’ The Outsider or Bounjour Tristesse or The Old Man and the Sea is short but I think it would be short sighted (or poorly read) to say they’re ‘quickly read and soon forgotten.’ I mean maybe if all you’re reading is poor books, but there’s no end of modern classics that are brilliantly written while also being short.

@Viques - Yes, Midwich Cuckoos was one of the popular choices. It encouraged us to look at his other works whereas I wouldn't have dreamed of reading anything apart from Agatha Christie or Jean Plaidy in my spare time😀

I think the pairing a classic book with a more modern one (maybe more children's/YA) one is good, but it does mean more work if you study them both. I think we might have read The Merrybegot alongside The Crucible (I don't think we did witch trials twice, but maybe we did).

I remember one piece of homework when we did R&J in Year 9 was to find another book with the same themes — I know I chose The Magicians of Caprona (I love a bit of Diana Wynne Jones!) but I think across the class only a handful of books were picked by more than one person.

@Quinoawoman to be honest I'm not really sure. In general I think there is less resilience in young people these days. But also more awareness and chatter about mental health. Once perhaps such students simply dropped out of school and we never truly knew why?

I also think the increasing globalisation of the news cycle brought on by social media has made the world seem scarier. We now don't just hear about the local bad news, but we're bombarded constantly about war, famine, violence all around the world. I think for many young people who are just starting to become more aware of the world, things can seem really overwhelmingly negative and that is very draining.

Personally, I prefer to turn off the news and keep reading psychological thrillers

I think one thing many people (especially those who are great readers themselves) don’t really understand is that, when you teach English, maybe 4 or 5 kids in the class are readers. Maybe. Probably half the class won’t be. Or if they are, they’ll be readers of YA series or manga novels. A lot of people (I noticed this in training) kind of think teaching English will be like a uni seminar or something from Dead Poet’s Society, with passionate discussions of Dickens and poetry. But in fact, it’s a core subject which is mandatory for all students. That means a huge number of them won’t really be interested in literature or English as a subject. Setting a text like Great Expectations or Thomas Hardy novels, which are really hard to read, would be almost impossible, because more than half the class would be instantly turned off by the difficult language and sheer length.I think one thing many people (especially those who are great readers themselves) don’t really understand is that, when you teach English, maybe 4 or 5 kids in the class are readers. Maybe. Probably half the class won’t be. Or if they are, they’ll be readers of YA series or manga novels. A lot of people (I noticed this in training) kind of think teaching English will be like a uni seminar or something from Dead Poet’s Society, with passionate discussions of Dickens and poetry. But in fact, it’s a core subject which is mandatory for all students. That means a huge number of them won’t really be interested in literature or English as a subject. Setting a text like Great Expectations or Thomas Hardy novels, which are really hard to read, would be almost impossible, because more than half the class would be instantly turned off by the difficult language and sheer length.

I agree, Kanaloa.

I love literature and went to an academic grammar school, so yes, finding out that my classes in a big inner-city comprehensive weren't always like that was a learning experience!

But I'm passionate about the pleasure that reading can give to everyone at the level they want to access it. When I worked in a school library I was very much against the policing of children's personal choices (stopping non-academic boys from taking out 'Wimpy Kid', for example). Yes, there are set texts which you have to read but other than that, as long as youngsters are getting pleasure from reading, I'm with Neil Gaiman on letting them make their own choices. We're not all aiming to be literary critics. I remember from my own schooldays being forbidden to read Enid Blyton when everyone loved her books.

(In fact (a whole nother subject...) I wish students who don't enjoy academic work were still allowed to leave school earlier and start training or studying for what they actually want to do. I don't see the point of forcing every child through the canon of English literature, much as I love it myself. But that's off topic...)

@CoffeeCantata

Why was Enid Blyton banned? I mean to be fair I was shocked when reading Malory Towers to DD at how bloody awful those girls are. I wanted to be Darrell and be best friends with Alicia and on a reread I thought they were rude and mean little madams. Maybe I noticed it more because in real life I would very much be a Gwen 😂

I agree with the idea that students should be allowed more freedoms. It’s difficult to balance but for some students I think a different type of English could be taught. Wading through complex literary themes just isn’t necessary for everyone. But then at the same time you don’t want to start cutting down people’s options when they’re 13/14 and leaving them not able to change or develop. But it’s very difficult to balance a class with some students who are incredibly passionate about all and any literature and some students who are barely literate and hate reading. It would be nice if the students that struggled got a more supportive curriculum rather than complex and difficult texts to read.

This is a fascinating thread and it is really really brilliant to read everyone's opinions, both those of Eng teachers and those like me who just love reading!

Apols for my Little Women suggestion - agree that no 14 yo boy would enjoy that, I was just trying to think of cheery books I enjoyed in my teens

Celeste Ng is a great suggestion; is there any place for a memoir? I have recently read I am I am I am by the fabulous Maggie O Farrell and while it is about all the times she almost died (!) it is genuinely life affirming. Also read a memoir by a heart surgeon which made me cry, it was so moving and powerful.

Katherine Mansfield short stories is another one i thought of - lots to analyse but reasonably happy (at least, no death). At The Bay and The Garden Party for example. Or Bliss.

When we did have a lovely comparative unit (20?) years ago, I paired Jane Eyre and Paddy Clarke HaHaHa which worked really well. Rites of passage stories work well on the whole. That's why R and J remains popular, why The Crucible works and why P'Tang Yang Kipperbang made them laugh.