Every man / woman for himself on train

[Nodinnernogift]

I don't think IABU but keen to hear opinions.

I am on my way home on the last train (the very very rare occasion I've been in it has seemed pretty manic) from the city.

I arrived at the platform, it's mobbed - last train from the city. I position myself close to the boundary line.

One man stood beside me also close to the boundary for getting on the train. The rest of his group stood back but regardless it's impossible to say where carriage doors will stop.

I was on his left. The train stopped with the doors close to him on his right, he walked to the door theb made a big show of letting everyone to his right on first holding his left arm out behind him to block me or anyone else on his left. Everyone to his right boarded. He then walked on, positioned himself beside the only remaining table for four then began nodding and pointing to his own group of people behind me. At this point half the people were already on the carriage and either sitting or blocking seats. Most seats were obviously gone because he'd made such a big show of letting everyone in to his right while 'holding back' everyone to his left.

There would never be enough seats for everyone on the last train, the carriage would be filled up with people standing from the city centre.

I walked onto carriage, ignored him pointing to the table to peoole behind me and sat down at the table for four.

His three companions came behind me and the four of them began sitting down, standing up, staring pointedly at me, offering each other a seat, staring at me again - all the while the seats around them disappearing. One of their party could have sat alone.

I'm now surrounded by three seated passengers glaring at me and one stubbornly standing passenger.

AIBU to think if they wanted to sit down they should have made it their business to board and find seats instead of expecting everyone else to acqueise to their 'manners' and wait to see what seats they deemed available!

You're being ridiculous.

There are no rules against sitting wherever you want. Just because there isn't a rule against it doesn't mean its not common sense and courtesy to leave the facilities for those who need them?

Really? I thought all the glaring was weird considering you did what 1000s of passengers do everyday - simply get to a seat first and sit on it.

But in addition to the glaring they were also whispering and loudly guessing where you'd get off the train?

Too weird. Just forget about them, they all sound pissed.

I literally always sit at a table for four if there is a seat free and am usually joined by other solo passengers. I like to read on the train and it feels less cramped. There are never enough seats on the train, the aisles are usually thronged. You grab whatever you can before they all vanish, it's not like a regional train where you stroll up and down deciding where to sit.

Yes, I heard the name of the area (it has a bad reputation) I was going to said so I assumed they were going there. Then I heard it said back and forth with laughing and looking at me. I was sober so obviously it's easier to see how unsubtle people are being.

I think he's very used to being in charge.

You were being just as judgmental about them so unsubtle as they may have been they were right!
I would not have sat at a table for four if there was a group of four and one of them had got there before me. You just said there was a table across the way with two people - why didn't you take a seat there? Because you were annoyed and wanted to prove a point, so you can hardly complain when they get annoyed at you.

Good for you OP. I've been commuting in and out of London for years and have seen all sorts of selfish behaviour. I make people move their bags off seats if there is no where else to sit, the look of shock on their face that someone has challenged them.

You have to be careful though as sometimes it leads to abuse. For example I told a man who was blocking the middle aisle and procrastinating about choosing a seat (whilst a crowd of people surged behind me) to "make up your mind..." The man was in his mid 20s and I said the statement in a sort of light sing song voice, not in a "move it idiot!" kind of way. He turned around and went to stand in the vestibule. Well...the amount of abuse I received was unreal. After I got past him and sat down in a spare seat I was called every name under the sun from across the carriage. His face all red and twisted up in anger. Me and the lady next to me looked at each other and then just sat there laughing at him and he stopped. The carriage was full of commuters so I felt quite safe. However, it was very odd and I have been more careful since as people can be unhinged.

I guess the point is you never know what sort of response you may get, so be prepared to deal with it...or have appropriate back-up or escape plan if things kick off.

She can sit wherever the hell she likes, she did nothing wrong. He was the one in the wrong thinking that he could control who got on the train.

Honestly OP, like you said you wouldn't barge a mans arm at that time of night, personally despite agreeing that you did absolutely nothing wrong would advise against upsetting men, especially late at night.

The truth is that women just aren't safe from men and had he got off the train at your stop I'd have been really worried how the story might end.

This guy was a prat, probably woke up this morning thinking what an idiot you were and what a saviour he was being and how all people from "your area" are lowlife, uncultured swine. I'd not put one more seconds thought his way, disgusting thing that he is.

I didn't know there were four of them. All I saw was a man standing beside a seat pointing to a person or people behind me. This man had blocked me getting onto the train. It was extremely irritating as I didn't want to miss getting a seat. I sat down in the empty seat opposite the one he was standing beside. Should I have asked his permission? The table for four opposite had a person sitting down already and a person putting stuff overhead so that looked closer to full.

Then the rest of his party arrived and made a huge song and dance of glaring at me, sighing loudly and playing musical chairs with the three remaining seats instead of one of them simply sitting at the table across the aisle.

I won't mince my words

He sounds like a fucking cunt and fair play to sitting down. Fuck them, first come first serve

This.

Why on earth didn't you sit on one of the individual seats that were 'disappearing'?

He's a dick yes but you've shown yourself up here just to be awkward and prove a point.

Why couldn't he sit in a group or 4, if there was 4 with him. Why did you have to barge your way in just to prove a point?

You put yourself in an upsetting position.
Again, he was a dick, but your reaction was strange. I suspect you wanted a 'wow what a ballsy move well done OP' I'm just not getting it. Sorry.

I've explained a few times now why I sat there initially; a table seat was my preference, the only other one was blocked. Regardless I didn't know he was with three other people.

I didn't / don't feel 'ballsy', I felt upset, unreasonably to be honest particularly about the mocking the area I live in. It makes me sad to think that when my daughter grows up and becomes more independent dickheads will laugh at her for being from this area.

People who don't travel much by train often treat the tables like they're in a cafe.
I'm torn between amusement and frustration at the shoppers and day trippers who say 'sorry these seats are taken' while they wait for the rest of their party to board at leisure. I tend to reply 'sorry it doesn't work like that on trains' and sit down anyway, to much huffing.
I'd have been annoyed too OP and you were right to take the seat. Its first come first served.

I have to say as a lone woman traveling late at night my modus operandi is to make myself as invisible as possible. Not too difficult usually by dint of being middle aged, but I'd certainly not go out of my way to draw attention to myself and have an unpleasant journey by being in the middle of some drunken, rude blokes.

I get that no one has any intrinsic right to any particular seat, but the whole journey might have been vastly different if you'd simply swapped seats saying "I'll let you gentlemen sit together " and I'd do the same for any group. Why not ? Can see if you want to work on the train, but otherwise a seat is a seat.

You grab whatever you can before they all vanish, it's not like a regional train where you stroll up and down deciding where to sit.

Don't know how to make it bold but you clearly never travel out of London as seat availability and lack of carriages isn't exclusive to London, we get these issues across the UK but of course London is special 🙄😂

But there was another seat available in this scenario, OP could have moved to it. I may be a country bumpkin but I can do simple maths.

@rookiemere I agree with you actually and when they initially crowded around the table discussing who should get the seats I attempted to interject and offer to move across the aisle before those seats vanished too.

But they were going out of their way to be so unpleasant, really unnecessarily so that I first couldn't get their attention (we are talking a few seconds because it's all happening quickly) then I didn't want to speak to them at all so I sat back in the seat and looked the other direction out of the window. The journey is 40 mins, it was so hostile.

They were a mixed group by the way, I don't know if that makes a difference.

Their sneering was really unpleasant.

I'm middle-aged with nothing remarkable / dramatic or remotely offensive about my appearance - attention I receive (if any) is usually positive as I'm quite friendly and chatty generally.

Why are you talking about London?

You're not the one posting about how upset you are that you had to sit next to 3 arseholes talking about you though?

You and the OP have every right to sit wherever you'd like...but if you don't like the behaviour of others then your choices are either toughen up, sit in a row of 2, or continue as you are and be upset all the time.

Am I the only one who avoids sitting into a two seater in this sort of situation? They feel so enclosed, I'd hate to be on the inside of some drunk strange man.

Ok get it now OP YANBU.

On the two seater situation, what I've seen people doing is taking the outer seat then letting the other person take the inner one.
I got wedged in the other day on a long journey by a sleeping tourist with a huge case at her feet on a train this week, so going forward I'm going to maintain the outer seat.

I always take the aisle seat. I'm surprised there weren't aisle seats free throughout the carriage as these are always the last to go with most people grabbing the window seats and tables first.

You were being a bit odd by not offering to swap seats and, if they were talking about you, they were being rude. However, is it really worth worrying about this in such detail 12 hours later?

Some people are weird like that. I once had a man block me getting on the tube because his wife was getting on with a massive pram and apparently no one could even enter the train until she had arranged it and taken her seat.

It wasn’t even busy!

The man was being a twunt. You made your point (and a pretty funny one at that) by sitting down when you were perfectly entitled to do so.
But you knew (or should have reasonably assumed) it would provoke them and that you'd be in for an uncomfortable journey so I have no sympathy there.