To think closing times shouldn’t be treated as an estimate? Disagreement with friend AIBU

[friendship1234]

i have been friends with this woman for about two months, met her at work as I recently started a new job.

so, we went out shopping today, to pick up stuff for the kids and just have a browse really. We had a really good time and it was about five to six and we were almost ready to head home. Friend says to me “oh let’s just go into xyz shop” (think discount store like b&m or something.)
I say okay, we go towards the door and I see on the sign they close at 6. I say to her “oh they’re closing in five minutes, do you want to come back another day?”

she goes “oh it’s okay, I only need a few bits” so I’m like okay and we go in. There’s a worker standing at the door telling people that they close soon.

Friend takes a trolley, that should have been my first clue. Im like, maybe she just wants a couple of larger items.
basically, she goes round the shop browsing each aisle as slow as humanly possible it seems like, grabbing stuff off the shelves, comparing prices, asking me whether or not she should buy xyz, etc etc.

well at 6 a staff member goes on the tannoy and does the close announcement, friend is still browsing without a care in the world. I say to her “oh they’re closing now, let’s go to the till” and she goes “well I haven’t finished shopping” in an almost confused voice.

I say to her “I know but the tills are closing and the staff probably want to go home”

her response? “I’m sure they have staff that stay later”

I’ve only known this woman 2 months and I’ve never really see this side of her before so I was a bit shocked really. Anyway, I’m kind of trying to walk faster in the hope that she’ll hurry up and go to the tills. 6.04 a staff member comes down the aisles and is like, we’re closed now so could you please make your way to the tills” my friend goes “oh, excuse me” and then starts asking him if they have any more of something out the back!!! I gave this guy an apologetic look and was like “they’re closed, you can come back another day and ask” and my “friend” goes “I came in the door before 6pm. I came in before closing time, so I’m entitled to be here” and gives me a dirty look I think for not backing her up.

im shellshocked at this point really and I didn’t say anything as I had no idea this is how she behaved and I was really in shock.

The (lovely) store employee basically tells her politely that the tills will be closing imminently so if she wants to buy her shopping, she needs to go and pay now.

Well she huffs, goes (slowly) towards the tills, and I’m just standing there waiting for her to pay so we can leave. I would have waited outside but they’d closed the doors at that point so we needed to wait to be let out!
At the till, friend:
-argues about prices (“the label on the shelf said xyz”
-decides she doesn’t want a few things after all and leaves them at the till
-decides she HAS to buy a bottle of gin which is in a locked cabinet by the tills (I don’t know how the staff were keeping a straight face by this point, I was staring at the floor in second hand embarrassment)

then she takes AGES to get her money out of her wallet, faffs around with small change when she could have just given a 20 and be done with it, decides she wants carrier bags which have to be put through seperately, and FINALLY leaves. At 21 minutes past closing time, all in all. I actually apologised to the staff on the way out.

so once we got out of the shop we got into an argument over this, I said to her I can’t believe you acted that way and she shrugs and says well if you go in the shop before closing time it’s fine, it’s just an estimate not an exact science. She said she was annoyed at me for apologising for her, which she said made her “feel like the bad guy” I was like yeah because you were acting entitled.

basically, wibu to distance myself from her from now on? She has form for being a bit self absorbed but this seemed like a new level of entitlement! I just feel bad for the poor shop staff really. “Friend” says that she used to work in retail and that it really wasn’t an issue and that I was being dramatic and holier than thou. Aibu??

Just stick to shopping online. I don't want you in my store with your entitled attitude.

I would call a security guy to walk her out of the store be on the position of that poor employee.

She was absolutely outrageous.
Very entitled attitude.

Some people just lacking a basic social manners.

No, shops and staff need to do everything to help customers DURING THE HOURS THEY HAVE CHOSEN TO BE OPEN. If we wanted to serve people 24/7 we would be open 24/7, but we aren't, so the cut off time for service is the time we have told you we are closed.

If you want to shop outside those hours then fuck off to the internet. We retail workers on the shop floor really don't care who shops with us and honestly I would prefer if all the entitled fuckwits who think that just because we earn NMW and have a service job means we are at the mercy of customers who feel like policies such as closing times don't apply to them would fuck off and shop elsewhere.

Why should I have to stay late or miss my bus because you are an entitled fuckwit who doesn't even have the ability to read a clear sign explaining the time we close? If you have no respect for my time why should I give a damn about you and yours?

I remember one night I was at the door of the supermarket I work in at 21:59. We close at 22:00 and surprisingly that night we had very few late night shoppers and that particular night we only had one person literally paying at 21:59 so all they had to do was walk to the door and I could lock it behind them. So, it's 21:59 and I'm holding the (now turned off automatic) door open so they can walk out, a guy appears out of nowhere and tries to barge past me. I stop him in the doorway and the conversation goes as follows;

Me: "Sorry sir, the store is closed I have to ask you to move out of the doorway so I can close the door"
Him: "No, the door is open and they were shopping so you have to let me in!"
Me: "Yes, it was open so I could let the last customer out before I locked it but it is now 10pm and the store is closed so I will ask you again to move from the doorway."
Him: "Well what am I supposed to do now? I need XYZ for my kids!"
Me: "Unfortunately that isn't my responsibility as we have been open for 16hrs at this point and it doesn't change the fact that we are now closed. I suggest either you return tomorrow at 6am when we reopen, or you can go to <other supermarket a 2 min drive/10 min walk away> which is open till midnight."
Him; "Well that's just terrible customer service, telling me to go to <OtherSupermarket> instead of just letting me in, you've cost your company a lot of money, I spend thousands here every year but won't be coming back!
Me: (I was very annoyed at this point) Many people spend thousands here every year, myself included, that doesn't give you the right to shop when we are closed. I could have told you to get lost and shut the door in your face as we were already closed but instead I gave you service by politely advising you of the fact we were closed, what our opening hours are and where you could immediately get what you need. It is now 22:04 and I would like to go home to my own family so I will ask you one more time to move out of the doorway and if you do not comply then I will be calling security to remove you from the premises"
Him: Fuck you, you bitch - my kids won't have breakfast now because of you!
Me: (just relived he finally moved out it the doorway so I could close it, but I couldn't help myself from saying something as I did so) No sir, that's your responsibility as a parent. Good night

Apparently he called in the following morning to complain to my store manager to try and get me fired for refusing him entry and reiterate his threat to never return. Fortunately mg manager takes no shit from anyone taking the piss and basically told him the same thing I did - the store closed at 22:00 and we are not responsible for his failure to prepare and he didn't need to worry about coming back as she was banning him from the store anyway for being verbally abusive to me so it would not be happening again.

Him: Fuck you, you bitch - my kids won't have breakfast now because of you!
Me: (just relived he finally moved out it the doorway so I could close it, but I couldn't help myself from saying something as I did so) No sir, that's your responsibility as a parent. Good night

I once apparently ruined someone's Christmas by closing on time on Christmas Eve, we closed at 8pm FFS.

I wonder if @SummerDuck is also one of the people who stared at me through the window until I opened in the morning? We opened at 6am so you watching my every move at 5:45 as I put the newspapers out and fill the bread isn't going to make me open earlier.

wibu to distance myself from her from now on?

Definitely not, no.

Is she also the type (if she has children) to turn up to school/nursery 10 minutes late because it's only 10 minutes?
The retail staff would have been fuming (well I would have been and I have worked in retail). I bet they were meant to finish at 6 or 6:15 and won't be paid for staying late.
So she is massively unreasonable and she can't possibly have worked in retail with an attitude like that!
YANBU to want to distance yourself from her.

She won't do that with the nursery because they'll charge that shit right out of her.

People like that only waste other people's time if they can do it for free.

(The school probably are used to her kids standing waiting in the playground though ).

@SummerDuck What!?
If the shop’s closed, it means it isn’t serving customers.

It’s not good service to serve after hours as it pisses off other people and shows the store can’t even follow its own rules.

Definitely this.

6.21?! Jesus! (That’s probably the latest we’ve had ever!) Thanks for apologising on the way out- what a nightmare!!!

She sounds totally selfish and awful.

Years ago I worked at a major Australian museum. Special exhibition one time had a shop set up for it. Closing time (which had plenty or warning announcements) and some dickhead was browsing, ignoring requests to leave. One of my co-workers sorted him by flashing the overhead lights on and off.

I think @SummerDuck is so detached from reality that she can’t distinguish between sales staff who stand to get good commission from large, luxury purchases (who may well choose to be more flexible with their finish time - because they’ll earn additional money) and the staff in B&M who get no benefit at all from indulging some power mad customer after closing time.

acting like you’re spending literally millions on a luxury yacht, as you browse the shelves of B&M after closing and expecting the same kind of customer service indicates a lack of any basic understanding of about a million aspects of social life.

You both seem to be people who like to drag stuff out - for her it's last minute shopping; for you it's over dramatic / creative writing style posts on forums.

She was taking advantage of the shop’s policy to serve people who are in the store at closing time. I don’t think that’s particularly unreasonable of her. Shops can, really easily, enforce a hard closing time if they want to. This one didn’t. They obviously think it’s better to be flexible and get your friend’s custom. And your friend appreciates that. I can see why she was annoyed at you apologising for her. It’s not your place to apologise for someone else.

But YANBU to distance yourself from her. I’m not keen on people who have such a relaxed approach to timekeeping, either.

If you find yourself in a situation where the people around you feel the need to apologise for their behaviour, you are the problem.

In a social situation, people can and will take action to repair the social damage of your behaviour. They should. This attitude that others have no business doing so is a big problem in society and they should be feel bad if they do anything but smile along with your bad behaviour is enormously damaging.

Apologising for someone else is pointless. They aren’t sorry.

If someone apologises for their friends entitled behaviour I will realise that they don't support it . If someone I'm serving is being obnoxious and their friend apologises , I will feel more empathy/sympathy towards the friend and won't think they're both entitled. It reassures me that most people are considerate

That’s missing the point.

By apologising for them, you are signalling to the other people in the situation that you understand their behaviour is not ok. In doing so, you are distinguishing yourself from them and making it clear that you don’t condone this.

That includes the person who ‘isn’t sorry’; you’re letting them know you aren’t ok with their behaviour.

If people are shielded from the social consequences of their behaviour by people feeling ‘it’s not their place’ to make it clear (by apologising for their behaviour), they will never learn to stop being such an arsehole.

actually this is a puzzle to me.

I worked many years in Retail in USA.

We would not have fussed about a customer who was 21 minutes out of shop after closing time. Must be cultural because obviously in Britain this is somewhat outrageous. In USA, closing time = when the doors shut for new customers to enter, not when all customers should have gone.

We clocked out when we stopped working not forced to clock out no matter what at a fixed time. We liked earning for extra time, or we could bustle around tidying up, it just wasn't an issue if someone was a little slow out the door.

A moaning demanding argumentative customer might be tedious but rest of what OP described not an issue.

You do sound incompatible, OP.

I try to follow whatever the norms are in UK even though customer service is lousy here.

I think the key thing is whether you are likely to be paid for the inconvenience.
I don't work in retail but I have done before. If a shop closes at 6, its unlikely that all staff will finish at 6, however the extra time at the end of a shift is for closing, cashing up and various tasks that can only be done after all customers have left. If the customer stays 20 min after shop closing time that delays everything else....and in many cases people may well not get paid for the extra 10/15 min. (And the knock on effect - missed trains or buses, being late to collect children etc)
And a shop closing at 6 means it's now closed to customers whether they have already entered or not. You couldn't expect to enter the shop at 5.59 and have an hour browsing time....before deciding whether to buy anything. (Although due to trading laws I think some shops open early on Sundays for browsing but you can't make any purchases until a specific time)

I don't work in retail but I have done before. If a shop closes at 6, its unlikely that all staff will finish at 6, however the extra time at the end of a shift is for closing, cashing up and various tasks that can only be done after all customers have left. If the customer stays 20 min after shop closing time that delays everything else....and in many cases people may well not get paid for the extra 10/15 min

That's essentially it but some people might only be scheduled and paid until closing time but they will still be expected to stay. For example, in the supermarket I work in the cashiers are scheduled and paid until closing time because once their last transaction is done and their till is turned off they have no other responsibilities and so can just go home; meanwhile the shift lead will be scheduled for an extra 30 minutes so that once the last customer is out of the door they can do all the other closing duties (removing and counting the tills, locking up the cash office, setting the alarms etc) which are usually done with the duty manager.

If a customer is still in store at closing time then the cashier can't leave as the shift lead/manager have other tasks to do (we can't lock the doors with customers inside so at least one of them will have to be standing by the door to stop anyone else coming in) and they may not even be trained to use the till which is another issue for another day so the cashier needs to stay to complete the transaction. So even though two people are scheduled later than close and are available that doesn't mean someone else isn't also staying late if you're not out by closing time.

Not only that but depending on shift length you get specific unpaid break entitlements - if I do anything under 4hrs I don't get a break, 4-6hrs I get a 15min break, 6-8hrs 30 mins, 8-10hrs 45mins and 10-12hrs is an hour. They give you a 5 minute grace period to allow for short delays but if I clock out more than 5 minutes after my scheduled finish it knocks me into a higher break bracket then it actually loses me money. For example if I'm doing an 8hr shift I get a 30min break ... If you stay an extra 10 mins so I clock out at a shift length of 8hrs 10, not only have I worked for free after my shift has ended but I have now been knocked into a higher break bracket and I will automatically have an extra 15mins taken off my wages so essentially your 10minutes late meant I worked 15 minutes for free. That then has a knock on effect that I have had to miss a bus/pay for a taxi and/or pay for extra childcare as I will be late to pick up my child so not only has the customer reduced my pay they have also caused me to have higher costs ... All because they couldn't get themselves in gear to be done shopping by closing time.

Yes it can be rectified but either it's a faff getting hold of the colleague in charge of payroll for the sake of 15 minutes pay or they offer to let you take that 15 minute break at a later date, but the problem is that if it happens regularly then you're constantly "owed" breaks and you never actually get the time or money back.

Funny how OP has made no replies to any comments 🤔

This is why I did whatever possible to not work in customer service after uni. Because of people like her. YANBU!

I do a rolling shift pattern of either working Christmas Eve/Boxing Day or New Year's Eve/New Year's Day every other year

The only joy I have when I'm working the Christmas rotation is keeping score of how many Christmases I have personally ruined every single year, and 9 times out of 10 it is down to the customers inability to do even the most basic preparations.

Every Christmas Eve there are people absolutely scandalised that we are out of Christmas cards/wrapping paper/turkeys/sprouts/crackers/Xmas pudding/the latest toy of the season/the Christmas jumper they want in a specific size/ brandy/insert any other Christmas day staple at 7:58pm when we close at 8pm and I have now ruined their Christmas ... 90% of the items we have had in store since September and (other than fresh items) there's no reason why you couldn't have bought everything on your list in the last 6-8 weeks and just put them somewhere in your house.

Every Boxing Day there are people who return items and blame me for personally ruining Christmas because the toy they bought their child didn't work/the clothing they bought was damaged or the wrong size/the turkey they bought was awful quality/the milk was off etc ... Yes all of those things are disappointing and isn't ideal but I didn't break the toy or mark the clothes or choose the turkey/bread/milk for them knowing that there was a problem so how did I ruin Christmas?

It's the same with every seasonal thing - Easter, Children in Need, World Book Day, Mother and Fathers Day, Valentines, Halloween, Bonfire night etc - every year these dates are either fixed on the calender or advertised well in advance but we still get people turning up the day before (or the day of) who are shocked that we are sold out of the item they need, despite the fact we've been selling the item for a minimum of 6 weeks prior ... Failure to prepare on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.