To think no one has a right to make money off their house

[Laughingstock1991]

The general consensus among financial commentators this week has been that the housing market has turned. Interest rates are still going up and are unlikely to come down for a few years. The low interest rate financial experiment that has been in place since 2008 has ended and it’s unwinding is going to be painful. The housing boom was based on cheap credit.

My mortgage is likely to go up about 400 a month. Lots of commentators reckon we are in for a big fall in house prices. Good thread here:
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1668987423643119623

What pisses me off is the absolute assumption made by some people (like my friend today) that the government should use public money to bail out mortgage holders. Most people were stress tested on their mortgage- I was- and yes it’s going to be tough but do I think public Money (renters money) should be used to bail out mortgage holders- fuck no! The Lib Dems have raised this also today.

House equity is unearned wealth. There are no guarantees. We have been through a boom and now it’s going bust. Hopefully sanity will return & housing will be seen as a home again- not an investment. Its not a ‘market’.

And I say all of this as a homeowner who is going to have to pay a lot more. I want everyone to be able to afford a decent home- not just those with money.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable!

Don’t know.. but maybe for similar reasons that when you fell on bad luck by whatever happened to cause your disability and couldn’t work, tax payers helped you carry on paying your bills.

Bullshit. No taxpayers have EVER helped me pay my bills! The only benefit I receive and have ever received is PIP which isn’t for fucking bills.

Most homeowners will be paying taxes and will have done so for many years and now they need help to afford their home

Yeah ME FUCKING TOO and no one bailed me the fuck out or paid my fucking bills. I still pay my way and my bills. PIP is not a means tested benefit it pays for the extra costs of being disabled- costs above and beyond mere bills. I pay my way and still pay my taxes. I’m living of what I SAVED until i was disabled at age 39. How much have you saved? If it’s not a million quid by 30 then you’re short mate. Fucking short. Don’t you dare act like I’ve not done my due diligence in being financially independent and taking care of myself, putting away for that rainy day. I’ve never ever even pissed a pound up the wall. Very few people in my situation could. Your bad luck is not special.

Yeah thanks a bunch. Might as well quit our jobs and claim UC
You know you won’t. You know that working is the one and only way to live a decent life on this planet. So no point being melodramatic about a choice you’d never take.

A key point:

If a renter can’t pay their rent and they are working, they don’t get bailed out- they get kicked out. Most don’t get any help at all.

If a mortgage holder can’t pay their mortgage and they are working, why should they get bailed out?

Without talking about benefits.

Even if people keep their job but lose their home. Most mortgage are lower than renting. More people who need to rent will likely lead to an even more saturated rental market with higher rents as a result (as less properties on the market), most people who couldn’t afford their repayment on their mortgage are unlikely to be able to pay rent at a likely higher price than their mortgage repayments (hence why they are there in the first place). So that likely will lead to them having to relocate to places with more housing options (and more affordable) which is likely going to lead to people having to give up on their job (to find another one closer to their new area of living) and likely take a hit on their salary as a result, which means less people contributing and/or less people contributing to the same extent as they did into the system, and potentially more likely to take from it.

So in all cases the system would lose out. And renters who are already dealing with a saturated market and high rents are unlikely to benefit.

What “furlough payments”? I got nothing as I cannot work.
I agree all those collecting up to £2.5k a month for nothing had it good on the government dole with furlough.
As did everyone on UC getting that extra £20/week uplift,

I got £0 extra. Just had to scrape by with my same savings and PIP.

Exactly right! No help. Just told go somewhere cheaper doesn’t matter if that means changing all your doctors and falling off NHS wait lists because you’ve moved into a new trust area.

BUT NEITHER WILL MOST MORTGAGE OWNERS.
Only those who will lose their homes because they can't pay.
Isn't that obvious?

Losing your home because you can't afford the loan repayments on it doesn't automatically mean you would be entitled to housing benefit, just as not fulfilling the criteria to get a loan to buy a house doesn't mean you can't afford to rent without housing benefit.

@SwitchDiver solidarity. Some of the comments on here are fucking ridiculous.

But it’s not a race to the bottom. Or, it shouldn’t be. Look at all the research. Animal and human. The most successful societies look after the weakest. The rise in mortgage rates means there are more “weak”. We as a society absolutely should look after people so they can keep their homes. It’s the government’s job, whether they acknowledge it or not. It will help the economy, and create stable, secure children who can be a part of building a positive future.

A renter will get housing benefit, a homeowner with a mortgage get nothing, so your statement is rubbish!

What it will do, is increased demand for rental properties, which will drive the price up at the bottom of the market, for the people who are receiving housing benefit at the moment, so the renters will lose. In fact, the ones that are currently renting at the moment will probably get kicked out to make way for the new tenants coming in as an extra £200 a month.

Perhaps they could buy all the houses that will be coming on the market from the mortgage defaults. Oh wait, no they won’t be able to because the banks will have tightened the lending criteria. And their deposits will be worth fuck all because they’ve been inflated away.

those suggesting that just because somebody can’t afford the mortgages any longer will have to rent privately and won’t be entitled to housing benefit will be shocked to find out realistically, the only reason people won’t be able to afford their mortgages will be because they’re out of work. Any other situation and the banks will negotiate because it is not in their interests repossess.

Spoken like somebody who has never struggled financially. Most people have to overstretch to afford a house unless they have inherited wealth and/or a privileged upbringing. I have worked since I was 16, alongside full time education and then worked full time. My husband has worked full time since he was 18. We both come from working class backgrounds but we now own our home. Unfortunately our fixed rate comes to an end in a few months and our mortgage is looking to rise so much that we may not be able to afford to keep our house. In the same area as us are people who don’t work for a living, some because they actually can’t and some because the system in this country allows them to take advantage. I’ve contributed a hell of a lot more to this country and it’s economy than those who get to rest on their laurels and have their life paid for without fear of being turfed out onto the street. So, yes, I expect the government to bail us out so we can keep our house.

Yep. That was me to a T. Lost my home, but not entitled to UC (which includes housing benefit). Downsized like mad to afford rent. That’s what you have to do when income goes down or costs go up- you cut your cloth to match. You don’t plead that you’re special and deserve special help because it’s not your fault- it very rarely is your fault. That’s the big lie sold by the Tories and their antecedents that poverty is the fault of the poor. It’s not, it’s 90% bad luck.

And here’s another good thread supporting why it’s a terrible idea to bail out mortgage holders;

https://twitter.com/TimPitt11/status/1669340369094578177?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1669340369094578177%7Ctwgr%5E48e99d28ec77880a7d0c83016034ab474612ed24%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2Flive%2F2023%2Fjun%2F16%2Fmortgage-rates-uk-government-urged-to-provide-emergency-help-costs-rising-nationwide-liberal-democrats-business-live%3FfilterKeyEvents%3Dfalsepage%3Dwith3Ablock-648c1acc8f08c1a38208953d

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes.
I thought you were suggesting that house prices have been going up because of the old 'supply and demand' argument. I am saying that they are directly linked to affordability and that demand isn't linked to numbers in the main (obviously it is to some degree).
The years I mentioned (1990 and 2008) were years when the housing market crashed.
Rents are going up because of general inflation, lack of supply and because landlords are being hugely squeezed by the interest rate rises.

@Laughingstock1991 if your home is paid off and you only spent £65K, it is a bit of a 'I'm alright Jack' attitude to wish for a housing market crash for your son.

What about those of us with £300-£400k mortgages in our modest family homes, which we bought 15 years later than our parents were able to buy.

A housing market crash will mean that families like mine are trapped in really expensive homes with the prospect of being homeless and still owing thousands.

We'll still be paying £400k for a house that's worth £250k. Of course that is the risk you take when buying a house, but we were in the position your son is now a few years ago, you wouldn't wish that on him.

Some of the posters on here sound like miserable wastes of oxygen to be honest.

Dogs in the manger.

No most renters do not get housing benefit and even if they did it doesn’t match rent increase so they have to move.

It takes a lot for a landlord to be able to remove a tenant for not paying...

@Velvian at no point in this thread have I said I wanted a housing crash for my son. You are mixing up my posts with someone else.

I had worked for a wage since 12, my DH since 14…you’re mad to expect a bailout based on past contributions. They don’t give a shit about we working class. We are disposable.

It takes a damn sight more for a bank to remove a mortgagee, years in fact

Not that much now they have the two week fast track.

Most mortgage are lower than renting.

Which is a bonkers state of affairs when you think about it, people on low incomes paying more to rent than those with a mortgage, but can't afford to save enough of a deposit to save money on their monthly outgoings because they are paying more in rent.

I don’t think I agree with the sentiment that nice homes are only for the rich. There are plenty of cheaper homes in less desirable areas, that need a bit of a work or have compromises such as no parking, no garden etc.

I bought my first home at 18. It was cheap, run down and in the wrong area. It had no drive, a very small garden and was a small house. We renovated it in our spare time around two full time jobs and 5 years later moved to a much nicer house in a much nicer area. Because the area was much nicer though, and because we couldn’t increase our mortgage by much (although are own wages had risen in those 5 years) we sacrificed other things. This house has no garden and no driveway, and was a mid terrace.

We have just moved again (I’m now 27). Now, with our ‘unearned equity’ from the two houses that we have renovated, we have just bought a house in our ideal area with a garden and a driveway. But it needs major works done on it and we’ll have to live in it for many years before we can afford to do the work.

I’m 25, so not a boomer looking back with rose tinted glasses. I have lots of friends a similar age who either have no deposit because they haven’t saved during those precious years they were able to live at home, or before they had dependents, or who do have a deposit but don’t want a less desirable home in a less desirable area. Most people don’t get to have nice things without hard work, and with housing, the ‘hard work’ is often putting up with the place until you can afford for it to be what you want. We renovated both of our properties, with no prior experience, so I don’t class my equity as unearned anyway. It’s no more or less unearned than someone who falls into a good job, or has the fortune to have their business promoted by a celeb or benefits from the current economical climate. That’s how life works.

@Dymaxion yet people still want a bailout despite mortgages being hundreds of pounds cheaper than rents for years. It’s unbelievably entitled. No one gave a shit when renters were paying thousands but now it’s mortgages, everyone is screaming for a bailout.

utter entitlement!