To think no one has a right to make money off their house

[Laughingstock1991]

The general consensus among financial commentators this week has been that the housing market has turned. Interest rates are still going up and are unlikely to come down for a few years. The low interest rate financial experiment that has been in place since 2008 has ended and it’s unwinding is going to be painful. The housing boom was based on cheap credit.

My mortgage is likely to go up about 400 a month. Lots of commentators reckon we are in for a big fall in house prices. Good thread here:
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1668987423643119623

What pisses me off is the absolute assumption made by some people (like my friend today) that the government should use public money to bail out mortgage holders. Most people were stress tested on their mortgage- I was- and yes it’s going to be tough but do I think public Money (renters money) should be used to bail out mortgage holders- fuck no! The Lib Dems have raised this also today.

House equity is unearned wealth. There are no guarantees. We have been through a boom and now it’s going bust. Hopefully sanity will return & housing will be seen as a home again- not an investment. Its not a ‘market’.

And I say all of this as a homeowner who is going to have to pay a lot more. I want everyone to be able to afford a decent home- not just those with money.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable!

The average house price has increased by many multiples more than the average salary.

@rainingsnoring
Born 1975
Emigrated 2000
Returned 2001
Emigrated 2012
Returned 2015
Would my NI number and recent payslips help to clarify ? i think it’s essential you have an in-depth understanding of my finances in case our paths ever cross again online so you can cross reference dont you ?

I didnt say I struggled on benefits, at all. Keep up !!!

@3BSHKATS I am not interested in your finances nor anything else but your stories have as many holes in them as a piece of swiss cheese!

UK average house prices versus average salaries

My life has been a soap opera, most people would have given up a long time ago hence my disgust at the likes of you revealing in the possibility of further shit heading our way.

In reality, most people are earning less due to everything being so expensive. I'm talking about the jobs that run the country here, as seen in lockdowns.

I don't think govt should bail out mortgage holders at all. But people talking about 1980's rates really haven't got a clue what things are like now!

This is an interesting thread but keep getting sidetracked trying to work out if a PP is simply a fantasist and liar, or a benefits cheat.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/19/rishi-sunak-rules-out-extra-government-help-with-uk-mortgages

I don't belive any conspiracy theories.
Show me absolute proof, not theories, and I might just take you seriously.
Probably won't though.
I bought my first house in 1988 and the interest rate was around 15%.
I was paying just under 8% in 1998.
Obviously it has dropped tremendously since '88, so where's the CT?
It goes up, it comes down, and so on.
Any conspiracy theory is taking a bloody long time if rates are still no where near what I was paying in the late 80's 🙄

I do wonder personally whether there is something in the idea of it being a conspiracy theory or no re just how darn difficult it is for people to be able to buy a home. I do know that it's virtually impossible to feel any level of financial security/security generally unless and until one owns one's own home for sure. The roof over your head HAS to be secure before you can even start thinking about/planning A Life per se - even if you've not come from a home-owning family whereby you were born knowing from Day 1 you were a "Home-Owner" (as some people - including me personally - were and I'm only semi-joking when I say the day I was born I was saying "Hello....the name is Eliza and I'm a home-owner" LOL). The only other option to have that mental freedom is to have public sector housing - in the traditional sense of "It's Yours....end of...provided you're being reasonable in looking after it okay etc etc and paying your rent okay/looking after the place okay". Basically anyone that isn't in one of those two scenarios is hog-tied to start with as regards freedom and security to "live their own life" as they've decided imo.

Well that seems more plausible.
Although why do they call it a conspiracy theory. Isn't it just the rich man's policy ?

3BSHKATS Really, l think your the one, who needs to keep up.

You are completely wrong , Germany is in recession, their growth is expected to be less than the UK over the next few months. Council tenants handing keys back give me a break!!! Council rents are half the price of private rent. My cousin pays £500 for a three bed. My friend complained her rent went up £50 to £450 for her 2 bed flat, private would cost about £800. You are making this up!!

There’s a few issues here. Last year or maybe in 2021, interest rates were at 0.75 %. It’s now 4.50%.I mean the base rate. So they’ve gone up very quickly in a short amount of time.

The point about interest rates being much higher in the late 80, early 90s. I totally get that and things were bad. Really bad. And many people literally handed their properties back to the lenders.

But- also house prices were much lower. And while salaries were less in the late 80s early 90s, they weren’t in comparison with house prices comparable to today.

Let’s say a police officer or nurse in 1989 was on a salary of 19k a year, they could buy a house for £60k.

Now, in 2023, a police officer or nurse could be on 30k a year, but the same house could be £350k. Maybe more.

Of course these figures I quoted aren’t accurate, it’s just an example of a point I’m making.

House prices have by far out paced wages.

I wonder if that counts as a personal attack or just a really shitty thing to say ? Should we ask Mumsnet?

sadly you are correct. Thats exactly the way the cookie will crumble

There is such deep envious jealousy in these sorts of statements. Someone who has worked their whole life to pay their mortgage off, in their 60s, renting out a room to someone else so they can have a little extra to get by? F&&k you for wanting to steal that from them. You have been tricked by the constant stream of messages in the media telling you that nobody should own anything, that wealthy people are all bad, and then lowering and lowering the idea of wealthy to mean someone who owns a house. You are a muppet for listening to them.

Guess what? EVERYTHING is down to luck. If you happen to have a nice husband/partner it's because you were lucky enough to be attractive to him. You don't deserve him. He should divorce you. If you have a reasonable job, it's because you were fortunate enough to be born into a place where you could get enough of an education to get one. You don't deserve it. They should sack you.

Of course, that's ludicrous and EXACTLY as ludicrous as feeling seething resentment over ordinary people who manage to half kill themselves to pay off a house.

THEY EARNED IT.

If you want to have a go at robber barons and slum lords, and people born into excessive wealth, go ahead. But this hateful jealousy over people who managed to get ahead by yes some luck, and YES DEFINITELY a lot of hard work is putrid.

And no, guess what, I don't own a f*king house, or even just a flat. I just cannot stand whiny snivelling. Stop moaning about what other people have. You have the internet and a device to use it on, you have enough of an education to put those whining sentences together, that puts you in the top bracket and among the luckiest people on the earth. Use that good luck and better yourself.

Or spend the rest of your life wishing you could take other people's happiness away from them, because you're filled with deep, desperate jealousy. Your choice.

Not everyone who rents actually wants to buy. People rent for all sorts of reasons. Temporary contracts where they move around for their job every six months or 12 months or whatever. These people won't get social housing but they won't want to buy either. What do you suggest they do?

A relative of mine works away on short term contracts and often rents a room in a house. Their subsistence expenses from work only just cover this. If the landlord fees go up as you're suggesting the rental costs will go up and eat into the wages and it won't be worth my relative doing the job to pay their own mortgage and there are very few jobs in their own town. Increasing landlord costs will just mean more will sell the houses and the rental market will be even more difficult than it is now, the ones that are left will be able to charge what they like if there are fewer houses.

Where do you go on holiday? A UK break in a cottage maybe? If the taxes on second homes went up as per your suggestion this would be reflected in the price of the holidays. Could you still afford it then? Or should holidays be off the table as well?

Likewise with overseas property. I don't want to stay in a hotel. I don't like them. I want an apartment or a house when I'm on holiday. This is likely to be someone's second home. The prices of these rentals would also go up and make holidays prohibitively expensive for some.

Of course equity growth in houses is unearned wealth. As long as no work was done to the house to improve its value.

I read something earlier about suggesting a windfall tax on the banks who are currently making ridiculous amount of profits on the higher interest rates to create a fund. I think if they did that with a proper means tested way (people who are about to lose their homes they've worked their arses off for many years to keep) for people to get support then I don't see anything wrong with that as it keeps out of the taxpayers funds but the right people get the support they need.
I'm not buying the whole 'people who are homeowners are richer than those who rent because they have equity.' Most homeowners have spent many many years working hard to save money to put a deposit down to entitle them to get a house in the first place, why should they lose that? Those that rent, for whatever reason, chose to do that.

Also, if someone has invested £20k of their own money to improve their house and therefore improve the value of their house, why should they be penalised? Home owners don't have it easy, everything within that house needs to be paid for (new boiler/new roof/structural rectifications) etc.

It's Dog in the Manger Syndrome: if I can't have it, no one else should be allowed to, either.

Those that rent, for whatever reason, chose to do that

Ooh that statement is so untrue and SO out of touch it’s incredible. I know loads of people who are forced to rent because they can’t afford to save a deposit due to extortionate rents and can’t get out of the trap. And don’t have family money.