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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To buy my neighbours a voucher and put through letterbox?

233 replies

tertrisnblox · 15/06/2023 21:49

My neighbours are attached to us. They are renting and moved in around 3 months ago. They are two males, I've spoken to one briefly who has introduced himself, the other guy is quieter.

I have two chihuahuas, who honest to god, are really well trained except the fucking barking. It's actually a nightmare, I feel constantly on tenterhooks. They are fine as long as no one else is in their garden, but if they are, so help the neighbourhood.

So full disclosure, I can't afford a trainer at the moment, so I have been trying to train them. I find this very difficult when I just want them to shut up quietly so not to upset the neighbours.

One of the men are really friendly and always smile at them and have mentioned coming over to say hello so they're not too scared of him.

I try and only let them out when no one else is in their garden. However, tonight I didn't see the quiet neighbour sitting in his garden. Let the dogs out and they went MENTAL. The neighbour looked visibly annoyed and quite right. Until he seen me then started smiling, I apologised and he smiled and said it's fine but he was on the phone and immediately went inside and slammed the door.

I feel absolutely awful and honestly don't know what to do. I know they may smile at the dogs but in their head they'll be thinking fuck off noisy dogs (and worse I'm sure).

I have tried the spray from pets at home, I have tried positive reinforcement, I have tried distraction tactics etc.

Would I be unreasonable posting a voucher and an apology letter to the guys? Or will they be thinking, fuck the apology, get it sorted.

I hate the thought of rehoming my dogs. I utterly adore them but I honestly hate the thought of upsetting my neighbours.

What if I went over and knocked their door and asked them how much this was upsetting them with a promise to do something about it? Like they could give them sausages when they see them to make them not scared?

OP posts:
PlatBilledDuckypuss · 16/06/2023 00:08

We had a neigbour with a dog that did this. They gave us a bottle of wine to say sorry for the barking.

The wine was nice but it didn't stop us wanting to poison the bloody animal.

AbraKedavra · 16/06/2023 00:35

I once had a macaw which I kept in an outdoor aviary. Lovely bird, tame, talking and funny, but used to scream as macaws are wont to do.

After about 9 months a couple of neighbours came to complain, and I sold it on soon afterwards. It was sad, but it wouldn't have been fair on the neighbours.

Shhhquirrel · 16/06/2023 00:37

Sunnydaysareuponus · 15/06/2023 21:59

Well they aren't well trained are they? We have 4 ddogs.. Ndn never hears them at all.

Slow hand clap

JennyJenny8675309 · 16/06/2023 00:47

saltinesandcoffeecups · 15/06/2023 23:56

Ok sadist.

It’s easy to throw bricks from behind your computer screen, isn’t it. I have a lovely dog but if he was barking and bothering neighbours, I would get one of those collars. It is a MILD shock which they quickly learn is set off by barking so they stop.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 16/06/2023 00:56

JennyJenny8675309 · 16/06/2023 00:47

It’s easy to throw bricks from behind your computer screen, isn’t it. I have a lovely dog but if he was barking and bothering neighbours, I would get one of those collars. It is a MILD shock which they quickly learn is set off by barking so they stop.

Nope, I’ve said I had a barker. I just took the route that didn’t cause pain but meant effort on my part.

Those shock collars are for lazy sadists.

sausagedogpookie · 16/06/2023 01:03

OP,I saw this online course on my FB feed tonight (I guess due to targeted ads because I enrolled my puppy on a puppy training class recently.) It says it’s £27 I think,so no more expensive than a voucher and worth a try?

To buy my neighbours a voucher and put through letterbox?
Anotherparkingthread · 16/06/2023 01:05

Op given that they are small dogs can you put some fencing that would stop the dogs seeing the neighbours? I'm not talking like a 6ft wall but just some sturdy panels with no gaps.

BreadInCaptivity · 16/06/2023 01:23

Your dogs, your problem.

If you can't afford the training you can't afford the dogs.

A voucher would just wind me up in your neighbours situation. Not make it better.

It's all very well feeling bad about the situation but that doesn't help anyone.

You need to find a way to resolve the problem (or stop giving a shit and relax into being a crap neighbour),

bussteward · 16/06/2023 01:31

Unless the voucher said “valid fir rehousing two (2) dogs immediately” I’d want you to fuck off then fuck off some more.

JennyJenny8675309 · 16/06/2023 01:37

saltinesandcoffeecups · 16/06/2023 00:56

Nope, I’ve said I had a barker. I just took the route that didn’t cause pain but meant effort on my part.

Those shock collars are for lazy sadists.

😂

MyLostSock · 16/06/2023 01:57

My property is surrounded by dogs on three sides. I can't go out in my own garden without being barked at incessantly, and it is so frustrating. I'm at the point where I'm going to dig and plant a new hedge on one side (about 50m or so) to gain some protection on one side, but I don't know about the others. One dog can bark with a soft toy IN HIS MOUTH. This dog has seen me get the mail for eight years, and has barked every time.

(And no, I wouldn't want a voucher - I'd want to know what steps you were taking to solve the issue.)

MyLostSock · 16/06/2023 01:58

MyLostSock · 16/06/2023 01:57

My property is surrounded by dogs on three sides. I can't go out in my own garden without being barked at incessantly, and it is so frustrating. I'm at the point where I'm going to dig and plant a new hedge on one side (about 50m or so) to gain some protection on one side, but I don't know about the others. One dog can bark with a soft toy IN HIS MOUTH. This dog has seen me get the mail for eight years, and has barked every time.

(And no, I wouldn't want a voucher - I'd want to know what steps you were taking to solve the issue.)

And I'll add this particular dog had one of these collars.

It didn't work. He kept on barking.

CelestiaNoctis · 16/06/2023 02:01

They must be a nightmare to walk if they're like this in their own garden?

Dintananadinta · 16/06/2023 02:14

I wouldn't say anything to your neighbours. My dog barks like crazy when we let him out at night for a wee. He gets very triggered by the foxes and throws himself onto the fence. I feel bad for my neighbours but I can't stop him from barking.

Frequency · 16/06/2023 02:21

Shock collars have been proven in various scientific studies to do more harm than good. They increase aggression, among other things as cited in the below studies;

The effects of using aversive training methods in dogs—A review (Gal Ziv, 2017)and Do aversive-based training methods actually compromise dog welfare?: A literature review (Joana Guilherme Fernandes a b, I. Anna S. Olsson a b, Ana Catarina Vieira de Castro, 2017)

They are also proven to be no more effective than positive training which has no adverse effects on welfare as shown in the below study;

It is mine! Using clicker training as a treatment of object guarding in 4 companion dogs (Canis lupus familiaris), (Nicole Pfaller-Sadovsky a, Lucia G. Medina b, Camilo Hurtado-Parrado, 2017).

Behaviour Science is called behaviour science because it is science. It is fact. It has been comprehensively studied over decades. Even Skinner, who coined the four quadrants of behaviour science (Positive Reinforcement, Positive Punishment, Negative Reinforcement, and Negative Punishment) which most training methods are based upon recognised that reinforcement was more effective than punishment in shaping behaviours and that punishment had increased risks of creating undesirable behaviours.

(Studies, various - Google it. Most of Skinner's work now is now freely available on the web)

Anotherparkingthread · 16/06/2023 02:27

All the people saying rehome the dogs are monsters lol. Rehome your orts because your neighbour might be annoyed? Ridiculous. They are just barking, that's what dogs fucking do.
Op doesn't leave them outside all day and night so it's not that big of a deal is it. If it was kids screaming in the garden for 6 hours a day nobody would say you need to bring them inincase the neighbours are upset, or suggest rehoming them. And everybody saying training, it might work but some dogs... just yap. Little dogs are notoriously yappy. I wouldn't be surprised if op spent hundreds on a trainer and it doesn't make a single bloody dent in it. Some dogs just love barking. As long as its minimised as much as possible it's fine, if the neighbours hate it they can buy earplugs or move house!

JimnJoyce · 16/06/2023 02:54

@justgettingthroughtheday the device is not a shock collar, Its nothing even like a shock collar!
Did you even look at the listing?

JandalsAlways · 16/06/2023 03:00

Give the voucher and note, but get it sorted fast. That is really horrible and unfair and you should never have got pets if you couldn't afford the additional costs that go with it.

WiddlinDiddlin · 16/06/2023 03:05

Whowhatwherewhenwhy1 · 15/06/2023 22:07

These are great. Non shock and painfree they make a buzzing sound. Worked for us. You need to do something now not wait n til you can afford a trainer. Living next to yapping dogs when you are not a dog lover is awful.

Really not great, these work by startling the dog.

Long term, either the startle effect wears off and they stop working and you have to up the level of fear involved to get it to work again.

Or the aversive is too high and you scare the shit out of the dog which can trigger redirected aggression, cause a variety of incorrect association issues (was it the door that did it, the other dog that did it, the neighbour that did it...) or further stress/anxiety based problems. Which in Chi's particularly is likely to result in... more barking.

@tertrisnblox

Use management and counter conditioning.

Long lines fixed to harnesses whenever you open that door and you go out with them.

Pocket/pouch full of treats - the second they see something or hear a noise, you go nuts rewarding the experience, counter conditioning (like classical conditioning really!) - 'this = good stuff'. Mark the sound or sight with 'YES!' or 'noisies' or whatever word you want to use and scatter treats, stick treats up their nose pretty much... this needs to be dramatically exciting stuff. Not you standing there like a wet lettuce saying 'here nice doggy have a treaty'.

If they don't start hoovering up treats - you DO need to get the good stuff here, liver cake, sausage, cheese... no dry gravy bones or hard to chew boring stuff from the pet store within a few seconds, in you go without saying another word. The long lines allow you to do this without chasing or shouting.

You are not asking them to be quiet or behave.

You're not waiting to see if they bark at a thing you suspect will be a trigger.

It will be intense the first week, bit easier the second week, by week three you should find you can reinforce most stuff but not necessarily everything, by week four you should be able to reduce the number of treats and probably only use the long line on one dog (because when you, the treats and one dog go inside, so will the other).

It is hard work to start with if you're used to letting the dogs out unsupervised, and you DO have to do the same every single time, if you CBA sometimes and let them out off the leads and they go nuts and you have to chase about to get them in, you will undo the work you've done.

It does work though, and it doesn't matter if the dogs are nervous, if they're excited, or frustrated - nor does it teach them TO bark at whatever it is (because if that happens, they're looking at YOU when barking, the barkign is then designed to get you to hand over treats, and you can alter that easily. But in 20 years, it hasn't happened to me or any of my trainer colleagues!).

Once the four weeks is over you can generally drop to supervising fairly closely and treating particularly loud noises or sudden appearances of people. I'd maintain a random pattern of doing that forever, because it is pretty natural for Chis to bark at stuff.

TopMog · 16/06/2023 03:06
  1. Read this: What is the most yappy dog?

Dog Breeds That Bark The Most

  1. Chihuahua. Oftentimes referred to as “yappy dogs”, chihuahuas may be small but they have a big personality and plenty to say about it.
  1. Speak to your vet.
  2. Take a look at the articles here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Why+do+dogs+bark&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB1049GB1050&oq=Why+do+dogs+bark&aqs=chrome..69i57.15804j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  3. See this: https://bonsaviour.uk/top-15-uk-dog-trainers/
  4. Watch this:
  5. Use Bach Remedies (speak to Ainsworths Pharmacy for advice)
  6. Contact these dog trainers: Graeme Hall Victoria Stilwell

TOP 15 UK Dog trainers

https://bonsaviour.uk/top-15-uk-dog-trainers

Nicecow · 16/06/2023 03:12

Anotherparkingthread · 16/06/2023 02:27

All the people saying rehome the dogs are monsters lol. Rehome your orts because your neighbour might be annoyed? Ridiculous. They are just barking, that's what dogs fucking do.
Op doesn't leave them outside all day and night so it's not that big of a deal is it. If it was kids screaming in the garden for 6 hours a day nobody would say you need to bring them inincase the neighbours are upset, or suggest rehoming them. And everybody saying training, it might work but some dogs... just yap. Little dogs are notoriously yappy. I wouldn't be surprised if op spent hundreds on a trainer and it doesn't make a single bloody dent in it. Some dogs just love barking. As long as its minimised as much as possible it's fine, if the neighbours hate it they can buy earplugs or move house!

Oh piss off. Not all dogs bark like that. And yes if a kid was screaming for 6 hours you would have to take them inside. Neighbours shouldn't have to have to put up with your poor decisions and selfish attitude 😒

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 16/06/2023 03:16

tertrisnblox · 15/06/2023 21:49

My neighbours are attached to us. They are renting and moved in around 3 months ago. They are two males, I've spoken to one briefly who has introduced himself, the other guy is quieter.

I have two chihuahuas, who honest to god, are really well trained except the fucking barking. It's actually a nightmare, I feel constantly on tenterhooks. They are fine as long as no one else is in their garden, but if they are, so help the neighbourhood.

So full disclosure, I can't afford a trainer at the moment, so I have been trying to train them. I find this very difficult when I just want them to shut up quietly so not to upset the neighbours.

One of the men are really friendly and always smile at them and have mentioned coming over to say hello so they're not too scared of him.

I try and only let them out when no one else is in their garden. However, tonight I didn't see the quiet neighbour sitting in his garden. Let the dogs out and they went MENTAL. The neighbour looked visibly annoyed and quite right. Until he seen me then started smiling, I apologised and he smiled and said it's fine but he was on the phone and immediately went inside and slammed the door.

I feel absolutely awful and honestly don't know what to do. I know they may smile at the dogs but in their head they'll be thinking fuck off noisy dogs (and worse I'm sure).

I have tried the spray from pets at home, I have tried positive reinforcement, I have tried distraction tactics etc.

Would I be unreasonable posting a voucher and an apology letter to the guys? Or will they be thinking, fuck the apology, get it sorted.

I hate the thought of rehoming my dogs. I utterly adore them but I honestly hate the thought of upsetting my neighbours.

What if I went over and knocked their door and asked them how much this was upsetting them with a promise to do something about it? Like they could give them sausages when they see them to make them not scared?

Would I be unreasonable posting a voucher and an apology letter to the guys? Or will they be thinking, fuck the apology, get it sorted.
YANBU to post a voucher and an apology but YABU if you think that is going to make them be like "Ok, all forgiven, you just can't help it.."
I'd still be thinking sort your bloody dogs out lol

WiddlinDiddlin · 16/06/2023 03:22

TopMog · 16/06/2023 03:06

  1. Read this: What is the most yappy dog?

Dog Breeds That Bark The Most

  1. Chihuahua. Oftentimes referred to as “yappy dogs”, chihuahuas may be small but they have a big personality and plenty to say about it.
  1. Speak to your vet.
  2. Take a look at the articles here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Why+do+dogs+bark&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB1049GB1050&oq=Why+do+dogs+bark&aqs=chrome..69i57.15804j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  3. See this: https://bonsaviour.uk/top-15-uk-dog-trainers/
  4. Watch this:
  5. Use Bach Remedies (speak to Ainsworths Pharmacy for advice)
  6. Contact these dog trainers: Graeme Hall Victoria Stilwell

I realise this is meant to be helpful, but for someone desperate to solve the issue, a lot of this is not.

For example - That list of trainers, half or more of those are aversive based trainers who will cost a fortune and not fix the issue and will cause harm to the dog.

The one decent name on that list is actually dead.

Graeme hall will charge upwards of £800 quid and advocate yelling at the dog and when that fails, will be uncontactable as hes far too busy (and shit.)
Vikki lives in the US and doesn't take on UK based clients even if they could afford her. As the OP hasn't any money, neither of these options are remotely useful.

Zak Georges video IS a good shout though, also Kikopup on Youtube is another good resource for free, safe and effective training using kind methods.

If you read the thread, I've already provided, for free, the method to resolve this issue.

user1492757084 · 16/06/2023 03:57

Buy no bark collars and spend your money on good training.
Can you roll out reed fencing to block the dogs from seeing into the next door yard?

Zarataralara · 16/06/2023 04:04

Take your dogs into the garden on leads only. You are in charge, they walk where you want them to walk. Walk purposefully around the garden then back in the house. Any barking immediately tug on the lead in a downward motion ( difficult with a tiny dog but do your best) and a firm “quiet.” Make your voice low, dogs take high pitched voices as a warning of danger or an exciting event so would be more inclined to bark.
After 2-3 weeks of this try them without leads. Any barking that’s ignored when you say quiet means back in the house.
If you sit in the garden you sit with them on leads so you can correct any behaviour.