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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be shocked at how much time off sick some people have?

468 replies

Enfys1982 · 15/06/2023 12:54

I work in a school and since I started in the sector it’s been a bit of eye opener to me how much sick time some people seem to take, and it always seems to be the same people. Days here and there, sometimes weeks on end then they come back for a bit go off again. As I said always the same people.

The last time I was off was last year when I had Covid, and I was only off because then you still legally had to isolate if positive. I actually felt well enough to go in. Before that I genuinely can’t remember when I was off sick. If I feel bad I just dose myself up and get on with it.

AIBU to think it displays a lack of resilience?

OP posts:
bringincrazyback · 16/06/2023 21:19

LolaSmiles · 16/06/2023 20:57

And that includes cracking down on absenteeism. If workers aren't well enough to do their job effectively, get rid and give the job to someone else.
So don't get unwell, don't have unwell children, and if you are unwell then make sure you bring it into work and infect all your colleagues so they too can be unwell.
If your colleagues happen to have long term illness or underlying health conditions then that's their own fault and they better not take time off. Sack all the workers who have a disability for the crime of not being in ideal health.

Nice way to ensure disability discrimination and indirect sex discrimination against mothers.

Alternatively we could have better sick pay and working conditions for all so that people can take time off to be better, people feel valued at work and are less likely to take sick days because they can't face going into work, employees would be happier and more motivated, there'd be less illness spreading because people would return on site when they are better instead of infecting everyone they see, and happy healthy workers are probably productive workers who will give more value to the company or organisation.

Amen. 👏

bringincrazyback · 16/06/2023 21:20

HRTQueen · 16/06/2023 20:51

I want team players in my team

not team members who are lazy and inconsiderate

So how do you deal with sickness absence in your team? Genuine question.

bringincrazyback · 16/06/2023 21:22

Florenz · 16/06/2023 20:32

If you employed a cleaner or a gardener who regularly rang you saying they couldn't clean your house or tend your garden that week because they were sick, but expected you to pay them regardless, and you knew someone else you knew could do the job just as well and were a lot more reliable, what would you do?

If I was happy with their work overall, I'd try to bear with it.

Catza · 16/06/2023 21:23

Enfys1982 · 15/06/2023 13:05

Yes a lack of resilience. People who have several bouts of ‘flu’ a year when it’s probably just a heavy cold (if that). We all know the kind of people I’m talking about.

Yeah, much better to show up for work with a viral infection and spread it across the entire school.

bringincrazyback · 16/06/2023 21:28

Could someone else take the job and do the job just as well or better and have less time off work sick? If the answer is yes, there really isn't a question.

OK then, I have another question. Are you happy for all these inconveniently ill-more-often-than-most employees who would then be put out of work to be able to rely on the benefits system for their survival, because going by your rhetoric they wouldn't be able to find work elsewhere either? Or would you then blast them for 'sponging off the state'?

Theoldgreygoose · 16/06/2023 21:30

Enfys1982 · 15/06/2023 13:05

Yes a lack of resilience. People who have several bouts of ‘flu’ a year when it’s probably just a heavy cold (if that). We all know the kind of people I’m talking about.

Yes, we do all know the kind of people who do this. However, this is MN and of course you will get the usual posts about chronic conditions, disabilities etc. when it is perfectly obvious the sort of people you are talking about. I do wish some people would stop being so offended by everything.

HRTQueen · 16/06/2023 21:36

There will always be those in a team that work harder I accept that and it’s not obvious in their references/interviews. Lazy and inconsiderate workers let down everyone

thankfully we have a really good pool of regular reliable bank workers that I can often call last minute

other staff pick up their shifts or work extra hours (including myself and other manager)

a lot of my time is unnecessary supervising . I work in mh at times its very intense at times it’s staff issues that are creating stress

as pp mentioned when covid happened we knew exactly who would be taking as much time off as they could possibly get away with and we were not wrong

HRTQueen · 16/06/2023 21:39

i don’t understand why people excuse laziness

Some people are incredibly lazy and entitled

Florenz · 16/06/2023 21:40

bringincrazyback · 16/06/2023 21:28

Could someone else take the job and do the job just as well or better and have less time off work sick? If the answer is yes, there really isn't a question.

OK then, I have another question. Are you happy for all these inconveniently ill-more-often-than-most employees who would then be put out of work to be able to rely on the benefits system for their survival, because going by your rhetoric they wouldn't be able to find work elsewhere either? Or would you then blast them for 'sponging off the state'?

I have a feeling they wouldn't be ill nearly as much if they knew that their employer wouldn't put up with it.

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing.

LolaSmiles · 16/06/2023 21:50

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing
How do you propose someone feeds their children if they're unfortunate enough to develop cancer? After all they're off having cancer treatment and not working.

Should people lose the roof over their head and have to uproot their whole family because they've got to have surgery? After all they're off recovering from surgery and not working.

Some of this thread wouldn't be out of place in a Dickens novel. Quick, send the poorly people to a workhouse. That'll knock the illness and disability out of them.

LakieLady · 16/06/2023 21:53

Badsox · 15/06/2023 19:48

The death and a knee replacement should not have anyone on a performance management plan! They are both serious situations whereby time off is both necessary and warranted and what sick pay is for. The more serious issue is people taking constant occasional days. This is an issue because if they are genuinely
unwell, they do not recover properly by only taking a day, spread their germs around or make themselves susceptible to being rundown and ill again when they return too early. All of which is continually disruptive. The other side is those who take occassisonal days to facilitate their social life. If they don't want to work the hours they are contracted, they need to find a more appropriate job and stop sticking two fingers up to their colleagues!

Show quote history

And that's exactly how it's managed where I work. The only people who end up on a management plan are the ones who are regularly off on Mondays and/or Fridays, and have lots of short absences for diverse reasons.

LolaSmiles · 16/06/2023 21:54

Yes, we do all know the kind of people who do this. However, this is MN and of course you will get the usual posts about chronic conditions, disabilities etc. when it is perfectly obvious the sort of people you are talking about. I do wish some people would stop being so offended by everything
But the sort of people who pat themselves on the back for not taking time off work and start goady threads on Mumsnet about all the lazy people who aren't really ill aren't the sort of reasonable people who acknowledge long term conditions and disabilities.

Most people with common sense know that there's some piss-takers in life, but we also know there's chronic illnesses, disabilities, people might have mental health issues caused by things in their personal lives, might be taking unpaid leave for any number of reasons and so we don't tend to sit around saying "oooh all these people with their fake colds. Hard workers like me haven't taken a day off in several years".

Bluebells1970 · 16/06/2023 21:56

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing.

It never ceases to amaze me that people on MN think that employers have bottomless pockets, and should give up any profit margins/go into debt to pay their staff who can't/won't work. Any small/medium sized businesses can be crippled by persistent absences in terms of workflow and finances.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 16/06/2023 22:29

Bluebells1970 · 16/06/2023 21:56

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing.

It never ceases to amaze me that people on MN think that employers have bottomless pockets, and should give up any profit margins/go into debt to pay their staff who can't/won't work. Any small/medium sized businesses can be crippled by persistent absences in terms of workflow and finances.

It never seems to amaze me that small business owners on MN think that employees owe them everything and should struggle into work when desperately ill.

If you are going to be crippled if your employee breaks their leg or has bad asthma and needs extra time off with colds, or has endometriosis you probably can't actually afford to have employees.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 16/06/2023 22:35

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing.

Have you read the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists btw? Just asking….🤨

iolaus · 16/06/2023 22:39

I think it depends

As a line manager I have said to people 'why are you here? go home' or when they have rung saying they'll be back tomorrow when I can tell from speaking to them that even if they feel better tomorrow than today it's unlikely they will be actually better and suggest they don't rush back

However there are also members of staff who for five YEARS have taken the same week off - either as stress or bad back (sometimes its 2-3 weeks but always covers the one week) - yetanother member of staff knows she will be stressed and down in one week (it's the anniversary of her child's death), and she books it off each year because as she says, some years she's fine others she's in bits - my brother also books off his son's anniversary for the same reason 12 years on) - because they both know mentally they won't be in a state to work that week so plan not to work

And there are people who say 'I can't have sick leave till 1st August', then will ring in on the 2nd

I don't think the majority take the piss, however a minority do work the system and know how to do so

Figmentofmyimagination · 16/06/2023 22:57

This doesn’t apply in education obviously but in our desk based jobs, sickness absence has plummeted to close to zero now that people can work from home. So much easier to work when a bit under the weather if you don’t have to drag yourself out and do a long commute.

bringincrazyback · 17/06/2023 00:02

I have a feeling they wouldn't be ill nearly as much if they knew that their employer wouldn't put up with it.

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing.

None of that answers the question I asked.

Florenz · 17/06/2023 08:00

bringincrazyback · 17/06/2023 00:02

I have a feeling they wouldn't be ill nearly as much if they knew that their employer wouldn't put up with it.

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing.

None of that answers the question I asked.

What was your question?

Superfloop · 17/06/2023 08:46

HRTQueen · 16/06/2023 20:51

I want team players in my team

not team members who are lazy and inconsiderate

Is part of being a team player not supporting people so they feel valued at work?

Allblackeverythingalways · 17/06/2023 09:12

LolaSmiles · 16/06/2023 21:50

Being ill is not a crime. But it is not your employers fault that you are ill. The wages your employer pay you are for the job you do. Not the job you aren't doing
How do you propose someone feeds their children if they're unfortunate enough to develop cancer? After all they're off having cancer treatment and not working.

Should people lose the roof over their head and have to uproot their whole family because they've got to have surgery? After all they're off recovering from surgery and not working.

Some of this thread wouldn't be out of place in a Dickens novel. Quick, send the poorly people to a workhouse. That'll knock the illness and disability out of them.

Personally I'd use my insurance.
It exists for just this sort of thing!
I deciding to take responsibility for myself.
People should try it.

Iamcloey · 17/06/2023 09:13

Well lucky you!
You don't know what's going on in everyone's lives. Be kind.

HRTQueen · 17/06/2023 09:58

Superfloop · 17/06/2023 08:46

Is part of being a team player not supporting people so they feel valued at work?

Show quote history

I do support my team I value my team this is why I will do extra hours to covers those that let the team down

are you suggesting there is something to value in lazy and inconsiderate staff who make colleagues work load harder

LetsPlayShadowlands · 17/06/2023 09:59

If it makes you feel better about yourself then great. Just know, your employer doesn't care. Yes, they think less of people for taking days off sick, but they certainly don't think better of you for dosing yourself up and carrying on. I know someone who worked for their employer for 30 years. Like you, never took days off sick. They were let go in a round of redundancies and didn't even get a goodbye from the manager on their last day. They literally will not thank you for your efforts. The only benefit is thinking you're better than others who put themselves before their employer.

SparklyShark · 17/06/2023 10:19

Your suggestion about a lack of resilience is very offensive.

As you say, you don't know why people are off sick.

I have taken several extended periods of sick leave over the course of my career.

I have a severe but invisible disability which makes working absolutely exhausting and I have little energy to do anything outside at work because of this. I am an extremely dedicated and high performing worker - I have always far outperformed my targets. Actually, I think I am extremely resilient as I have made a lot of achievements despite facing daily challenges that most people have no idea about, and actually only take sick leave when I hit a point of total collapse. You clearly have no comprehension of the resilience required in situations like mine.

People are allowed to be unwell, are allowed to be disabled. It is not for you to make assumptions.