To ask you to discipline my child?

[jelmar]

Will try keep it short.

I'm a single mum to a 10 year old daughter, dad is involved, she sees him quite frequently. She isn't often cheeky to him.

She is definitely going through puberty already as she is showing signs.

I've messed up in that I've tried to be too much like a friend to her. I never had a close relationship with my mum so always thought I wanted to change this with my daughter.

However, she has absolutely no respect for me. She leaves everything at her arse and the talking back is horrendous. I just don't know how to pick a consequence and stick to it. I always feel I'm being too harsh or not harsh enough.

For instance tonight her friend was here and she kept talking back to me. I said, 'DD if you continue talking back I'll send your friend home' she said 'no you won't'. So of course I sent her friend home. However, she then continued crying and screaming and begging me to change my mind then when I wouldn't, she would say 'this is why everyone hates you'.

So tonight has ended with her not having her friend here, not having a phone/tv and being up on her room.

But I just don't know if it's too much. I've read about natural consequences but I can't think of a natural consequence of talking back.

Sometimes I'll take her phone from her and she'll say, 'I don't care, I wasn't going to watch it tonight anyways' etc. it's like she's testing me.

I'm clueless on what to do, I feel I have completely lost control.

Please help

sounds like she has been exposed to all the attitude crap on the internet which is probably accessed on her phone. I also think she has been given a phone too young as she is still very immature and cannot comprehend reasonable conduct.

if I was you, every time she gives you grief, give her a warning and if she carries on the phone is confiscated for a period depending on the severity of the act.

I think your initial punishment was quite severe, was humiliating for your daughter in front of her friend, and has punished the friend too.

The way I would tackle this situation is to act early, so as soon as she she back chats say calmly "I don't want you to speak to me like that" then if she does it again take her to another room away from friend (explain calmly "I want to talk to you for a moment come with me" then lead her out). Then say "I don't like being spoken to like that. Would you like to be polite or would you like me to take your friend home?" Then it gives her a chance to back down without losing face to her friend. The important thing here is to act quickly before it escalates and to remain calm yourself. If she gives in say thank you. If not, calmly follow through.

If you do send friend home there's bound to be strong feelings so acknowledge that she's upset and let her cry and shout until she calms down. Treat it like a toddler tantrum.

Once she's calmed down move on.

I wouldn't let her take her phone in her bedroom at this age.

Sorry but yes we have to go through the tantrums of them hating us, it's immediate response and soon changes.

As a teacher I learnt by only taking things to the next level of discipline would I get any respect back as I meant it, also as a parent. I'm naturally soft and hate doing it but you do have to follow through and take the reaction. Amazingly almost every time students or my dc have come back with an apology so it does work.

Sorry but yes we have to go through the tantrums of them hating us, it's immediate response and soon changes.

As a teacher I learnt by only taking things to the next level of discipline would I get any respect back as I meant it, also as a parent. I'm naturally soft and hate doing it but you do have to follow through and take the reaction. Amazingly almost every time students or my dc have come back with an apology so it does work.

Why did you punish the friend for something that your daughter did?

A friend of mine did this to my DD when she was younger.than yours Her son was playing up (not hugely) and she threatened him with sending saraclarajunior (and consequently me!) home if he didn't stop. He didn't, and my DD, who'd been really excited about the visit and had behaved perfectly, was really confused and upset at having to leave after only twenty minutes of playing.

I failed miserably to be able to explain to her why she (and I) had been punished for her friends behaviour.

What you did made no sense at all, and humiliated and disappointed your DD's friend.

In a situation where the friend is there I would state 'Don't be rude dd, we'll have a chat about this later' once friend has left I would calmly describe what I disliked about the behaviour and that it needs to stop. Natural consequence would be no more friends round if she continues to back chat you. Maybe next time she wants a friend round, remind her of the last time and challenger her to be extra polite and helpful in the days leading up to it.

We use no screen time the next day as a consequence as well, it's a good one to motivate them. In general you need to be clear about what you expect, don't react to every answering back or get into tit for tat situations. Rise above it but if you feel she has been especially cheeky issue a consequence. Often when mine are being snipey and backchat I will just give them a little smile and say 'Just like an overgrown toddler' and that usually makes them laugh at there own ridiculousness. They will usually apologise but sometimes we have tears and tantrums.

You need to create lots of opportunities for positive interactions too. Maybe draw up a chores rota together and decide on rewards like going our for a milkshake, bonus screen time on the weekend, extra pocket money etc.

Sounds like you set a consequence and stuck to it. Well done. Keep going, I think you’re doing better than you think you are.

They push boundaries to check that they are there. Kids get security from appropriate boundaries. So it's normal for them to push and your job is to reinforce the boundary.

Her friend lives down the street and they are constantly playing together. Friend has been sent home before and so has my daughter from friends house. Me and friends parent are in touch and she completely understands. I sent her a text just explaining that friend is on her way home due to DDs behaviour.

I wouldn't send a friend on a play date home as like you say, it would be unfair on friend.

This was an I arranged play.

I like this one and laughed at your smiling and 'just like an overgrown toddler'. I'll need to try this. Thank you!

It rally doesn’t miss the point, it’s you who is missing it.
A 10 year old doesn’t need a phone.

by sending the friend home it was she who was punished

This . It’s a lot easier to loosen up as they get older and their behaviour is generally fine, than it is to start lax and try to put the boundaries in later.
Start now - stay calm but be clear about what is not acceptable and follow through consistently.

Ignore the secondary behaviour. That's what we are taught as teachers.

Eg kid messing on in classroom. You tell them to move to a different seat They do move but in process slam bag on table. Rather than then picking on the bag incident it's ignore as the primary objective (moving seats) was achieved.

Maybe will help save your sanity?

Reading your replies to well meaning advice it’s clear where your DD got her attitude and the back talking from.

To be honest I would cut a play date/visit short if my child was being rude and disrespectful to me. Usually I think it’s showing off for the friend and would nip it in the bud by saying if they’re rude and misbehave then they can’t host friends at home. It’s not acceptable.

I definitely wouldn’t apologise for doing so either. She is kicking off because normally she gets away with being rude or unpleasant. Now you’ve enforced boundaries they feel unfair to her.

I would sit her down at a calm time and discuss also. Set some ground rules. Things like xyz must be done or abc will happen, if you want to host friends at home then you need to behave respectfully to me otherwise I won’t allow them to visit at all. And have her agree in a moment when you’re not in the thick of it. Obviously you reflect on your own behaviour also - have you supported her to learn appropriate behaviours? Do you support her in making the right choices? Or have you enabled/encouraged poor behaviour?

Okay, phone actually can have an impact - dd1 is now 15 and lovely. A few years ago she was very rude to me and I confiscated the phone. Her mood and tone when speaking to me vastly improved. As a result, when I gave her back her phone with clear guidelines I was honest and spoke to her about the difference I’d seen in her and how lovely it was so I think she needs to be aware that the phone does affect her because by being aware she can act on that. I asked how she’d felt and if she’d noticed a difference. She had. It meant we decided the rules phone usage together.

When any of my dc (I have 3 girls 11-15) are rude, tell me they hate me etc (doesn’t happen often) I am very disinterested and don’t rise to it “I hate you!” “Oh cool, I’m parenting right”/“good for you”/“uh huh” or “er, no, I don’t want to be spoken to like that so I’m going to make a cup of tea and sit in the garden. Come and chat when you are ready to apologise but otherwise I don’t want to see you” said calmly.

Hormones are not an excuse to speak rudely. Once she’s calm you can talk about hormones and how she can manage them.

one of my girls bursts with emotions. She’s full of them. She struggles. She’ll come and try to apologise and I will offer a hug to help her calm down.

bad behaviour needs immediate discipline and consequence, Later we’ll actually talk through what happened calmly and I’ll say how it made me feel and they’ll talk about their feelings and we fully make up.

Good luck op.

Actually, I have one big one in my pocket that I can only use once a year max. The only think my dc hate more than me shouting is me being silent. Children shouting at me and being totally unreasonable… I walk calmly away and go and get into bed with the cover over my head. I think my dc think they’ve broken me and last time they worked together to tidy their rooms, made me an apology card and came with a pre prepared apology (and I got 20 minutes of peace).

What do you mean by talking back? Specifically.

Because expressing themselves is good, if it's just tone that need's correcting. Rudeness is another thing.

I find a humourous, "sorry I can't hear you, I don't speak whine" worked on DD. With a smile.

When you make a decision - eg sending her friend home - do it and don't fall for the tears etc.
Compains she doesn't want to do homework and you tell her she has to or there's a consequence eg earlier bedtime - keep to the consequence.

it'll soon work out and she'll know you mean what you say. Just have to be firm. If you don't ina few years they be all
manner of she'll be trying it on with you

You did the right thing.

My mum used to completely disengage with us. Maybe that sounds awful but she literally didn't look at us or speak to us. It worked.

She was like ice. She got on with her evening and nothing we did could derail her. Nothing. That's what I try to do. After the, "what's going on", and "is everything ok?" And the warnings, that's that. The niceties do not come back until she amends her ways.

As I say, it was harsh and cold but it worked with us.

Try it. But try it and mean it. Completely ignore. Give commands and expect compliance.

Anything else is met with absolute silence. (Unless it's a medical issue or they just want a hug).

You're not her mate.

But if this is the straw that broke the camels back, which is what it sounds like. I get it.

We have a non-negotiable "no shouting" rule in our house. Do as you would be done by.

If either one of us breaks it, we are allowed to tell the other one off.

I truly believe they follow the behavioural methods they are shown and if you shout, they will too.

‘She leaves everything at her arse’

sorry it’s off topic but what does this mean? I googled but was none the wiser!

I'm missing a point here but I don't understand why you would send friend home to punish your daughter? Surely, the friend must have felt awkward for being told to go home early or the friends mum would have been called to come and pick up early rather than at agreed time?

Isn't that the whole point? It's awkward and should have made her examine her behaviour.