To not be able to stand film and TV nowadays because it always has an agenda?

[mintlily]

I've noticed that I can only bear to watch TV shows and films produced until roughly 2008.

It feels like everything nowadays has some kind of moral or political agenda. The writers are either trying to show off how enlightened they are, or condition you to accept their certain neo-Marxist world view. Virtually ALL dramas have an LGBT, feminist or anti-racist agenda, delivered with 0 subtlety or nuance. And the way it is done is so patronising and disrespectful to historical writers and figures - as if we 21st century people are the moral arbiters of history, and must overlay our more enlightened worldview on their bigoted work, which was surely produced in ignorance. It's also patronising to the intelligence of viewers, as if we need everything censored for our innocent eyes and can't make our own moral judgements. There is something puritanical and unartistic about it, like the Victorians censoring art to not corrupt the masses.

For example:

The new Little Mermaid deleting the line "men don't like women who blabber" from Ursula's songs. Ursula is a villain. We can cope with her being sexist, for goodness sake - we know that we're supposed to think she's wrong. The writer didn't need to fret that children would internalise the worldview of the villain.

Anne of Green Gables and her gay best friend. Why? This is not the genre to deal with LGBT issues. The author had no interest in this subject (as far as I'm aware).

Call the Midwife and it's pro-abortion stance. As if CATHOLIC MIDWIVES IN THE 1970s would have been pro-abortion?!

It's nothing to do with your actual views on these subjects. I just find that TV and film lacks the nuance and intelligence that it used to and I actually can't bear to watch any of it anymore, as it just feels so soulless.

OP? Tell us what you enjoy from up to 2008.

Try watching Dances with Wolves. White saviour shite

I'm curious about what you understand to be a 'neo-Marxist world view'? In what sense is a TV adaptation of Anne of Green Gables demonstrating the socio-economic consequences of the extraction of surplus value from the labour of the proletariat?

@Begsthequestion

Spot on.

No, because the way writers present these views now isn't to bring about change. It's to virtue signal.

TV, theatre, books, films have always had a political, social or moral agenda. Cathy Come Home in the 60s, Boys from the Black Stuff in the 80s, WW2 propaganda films, etc. Watch the historical dramas made in the 1960s - Tom Jones, Far from the Madding Crowd and they are essentially promoting 1960s values. So YABU on that point.

However at the more quality end, storytelling was always a bit more complex and nuanced and characters didn't simply act as mouthpieces or ciphers for political views. I do agree that the moral piousness and lecturing has become a lot more sledgehammer like (Especially now streamers based in silicon valley dominate production and insert Californian virtue signalling wherever possible) and lacking in nuance. I actually think Ricky Gervais is a bit guilty of this - putting sermons in his characters mouths. So it's not just a 'woke' thing.

The best cinema and TV offers a more complex view of the world and makes sure you don't come out with a 'lesson'. In fact some of the best films are downright amoral or immoral. (Lars von Trier, Tarantino etc) Or at least have sympathy for the devil.

I do think tv is getting less nuanced and losing any subtlety, although I think that's due to the audience attention span which is getting shorter, coupled with the constant drive for huge viewership, which mean layered and complex storylines that aren't central cannot be explored in a properly sensitive and appropriate manner, as producers fear being axed after one season, and want to deliver AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE now now now! But I don't think there's agenda as such.

You don't think conservatives said this about dickens too?

This is deluded.

You just felt more comfortable with the older agenda.

Being pro-abortion is neo-Marxist? Excellent. Bring on the revolution, Comrade!

Yes especially if they are British. There is always a tokën representative to tick every box . You can pretty much tick them off in your head . I don't find US shows quite as bad for this .

But do you honestly think these ideas presented in contemporary art are new and shocking to modern audiences? No, we don't bat an eyelid because they're in virtually every show and film.
I enjoy art that seeks to expose and shock - I read a novel about the terrible conditions and exploitation endured by illegal immigrants recently and it really impacted me. But that's totally different to writers weaving agendas in for the sake of showing how enlightened they are.

@mintlily what are the tv shows and films you like? It’s impossible to decide if you’re being unreasonable without these for reference.

Not true. Lots of books and films I really love present views I disagree with fundamentally. It's the way these views are presented, and the reason for their being included, that matters.

I recently watched A Few Good Men - basically a classic Hollywood courtroom drama genre movie with a big name cast from the 90s. So mainstream and hardly a radical arthouse movie. But the moral view in the end was complex. Even though the colonel was the nominal bad guy, he was a strong voice of reason and the film was ambiguous about the tension between making military decisions to protect a nation versus protecting individual soldiers. You didn't feel as if you were preached to. The audience had to do the work.

My Gen Z kids cannot deal with ambiguous endings. They watched the Italian Job during lockdown and were absolutely outraged. I wonder if this is because their generation are just so used to being told what to think and having definite conclusions?

Odd rational, you don’t like tv or films that show abortion, same sex characters or anti racism because it’s not new or shocking and you only enjoy things that “seeks to expose or shock”.
Like what then?

They seem pretty new and shocking ideas to you so I imagine there is still some way to go before everyone has accepted them.

If they're not new and shockingv and simply part of modern life then why are you against them being included in TV and film?

I turn off the moment I spot an agenda and go back to my old faithfuls.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN but you articulated it better. Thank you!!

It's when these subjects are injected into a plot or a setting in a way that is not cohesive with the overall thread of the show, or the intentions of the original author. Their sole purpose is to condition your moral outlook and show that the writers are on the right side of history.

You are being unreasonable to bang on so much about what you don’t like while withholding information about whatever middlebrow nonsense it is that you do like.

And no, they aren't in the least new and shocking to me. Just tired and contrived.

Also I recently watched that film and LOVED it. You didn't feel like you were preached at, and you truly couldn't have articulated the views of the writer. It left you thinking rather than self-satisfied. Art at its finest.

Women having abortion, gay characters or anti racism is tired and contrived? 😂

It’s coming across more and more like you’re the one with the agenda.

Also, I do think that art falls into categories. Dickens was indeed trying to educate and expose, and others are complex and exploratory in their morals. But a good writer challenges you and engages with you - they shouldn't preach and they shouldn't be afraid of angering activists