To ask how to make friends for my dc?

[catscalledbeanz]

My dd is 12, and she has no friends. She's become so isolated and unhappy at school. She listens to music or reads alone every break and dinner. She occasionally has one friend but they more often leave her for others. She's not perfect, and can be very reactive which makes her an absolute easy target for bullies. Her emotions are all over her face, she can't hide if she's angry or upset, and it makes her more of a victim as they love the reaction. When she has had friends she quickly loses them- one she caught out in a lie and didn't want to be friends with a liar (I told her beggars can't be choosers!) another one she lost because she (the other child) was talking about others behind their back which dd hated and told her as much (yes she should have said nothing and kept the friend) I know that this sense of injustice can come across as judgemental and overbearing , I've tried to get her to let things go and relax but even if she weren't so ready to call people out on their bad behaviour her face would tell you how she feels anyway.

After her first year in secondary coming to an end I want to look into moving schools, but dh feels that it'll be the same anywhere. They'll already have made friendship groups and it will be impossible for her to fit in. I'm at a loss as to how to teach her to make friends. Any advice on how to get her to chill? Or should I look into changing schools? Her older brother never had any issues, but he's so laid back and takes everything in his stride, whereas she is sensitive and highly strung.

@catscalledbeanz it is heartbreaking to be a parent with a child like this, my own DD is also having a lot of friendship issues for different reasons. But she will not suffer fools & that I applaud loudly, I do not want her to be a doormat for anyone at any stage in her life. She is forcing one friend in particular to be more mature & have the discussions about their issues in the friendship - helps that we're friends with the parents.

It sounds like she is involved in a wide range of things with school, what does she enjoy doing most & can you continue that outside of school in a club. Having friends other than in school is really important & maybe through a shared interest & not seeing each other every day it may be a balance your daughter needs.

I'd have a good chat with her about what she would like to do & whether she feels moving schools would be the right thing for her. Praise her qualities, they should be praised, but encourage consideration of others lack in maturity, emotional intelligence & experience. Compassion & empathy are equally important qualities to develop.

I’m a guide leader (girls age 10-13) and would definitely recommend as a good space to make friends. We try and arrange things so they mix and do a wide range of activities and trips.
We have a few girls who tell me they struggle socially at school and they have made friends.

Sorry just seen you tried Guides that’s a shame it wasn’t for her.

What has she got to lose by moving? It can hardly be worse!
Poor thing.
I coached my children with friendships, whilst they were young. Taught them how to show interest, be kind and thoughtful but fun - loyal and forge good relationships. What to do in disagreements.

There are some great books you can order from Amazon aimed at this age group and she can read. How to develop this area. Otherwise it takes years of mistakes to learn. I would build her up over the summer. Counselling, friendship guidance and send her to a new school in the autumn, with cakes, a game plan and a new leaf. Invite at least one or two girls a week for play dates? Have you done that already? A cinema outing etc once she is more settled etc.
Serious effort will be required socially but you have to give this everything you have got op.

do school do any clubs that fit with her interests .. or skill set ? Is there something like a debating club for example ? Or a film club or book club ?

I would only move her school if she’s unhappy or not achieving .. but have a look at others .. is she bright enough for a private school scholarship ?

Are there not clubs that fit her personality? She sounds like a chess club type, maybe she gets on better with boys and could join a club that her judgemental peers haven't thought of joining.

Hello @catscalledbeanz …some solidarity from someone with an extremely similar sounding dd!! Years 7 & 8 were an absolute nightmare for us. Dd would spend breaks and lunch alone, no one would ever partner her - again bright, sporty & musical but socially always struggled. In those years the school librarian was a godsend - she would have jobs ready for dd to do at breaks so she had a purpose and something to keep her mind off being left alone. We have spoken to dd again & again about being less reactive. Yr9 has much improved things - she will often now call me, vent her frustration and then listen to my advice about how to handle a situation when it’s gone awry. I find it really stresses me out but hide that from her. She has learnt to ignore the mean girls, roll her eyes and walk away which I think has got her respect from some others who will now sit with her at lunch. She seems to have recently made two actual friends (not counting my chickens though). But I think the most important thing we’ve done is support her in an after school hobby that she was passionate about - it’s given her a ‘club’ where she can go and mix with adults & kids. The adults mostly really like her and though she struggles with some of the kids she’s made some friends there that she chats with. It’s given her some confidence. I also spend a lots of time letting her know that I didn’t find my good friends at school till I was 15/16 - till then I struggled. Similarly my other kids have no issues so it’s not parenting style that has caused the problem! I totally understand how hard it is and though things are better at the moment I know it can easily go wrong again. I hope knowing that your dd is not the only one who struggles might give you some comfort💐.

Is there any possibility of neurodiversity being in the mix?

It's her behaviour that puts people off. There's no point changing her school because she will still be the same person behaving the same way to a new bunch of people.

I was this sort of child - it took me a good year to settle.

She may be overlooking the people who she has more in common with - encourage her gently to think about who is more her type.

Does she come across well in whole-group sessions in class - can she be funny? Can she make fun of herself at all?

In terms of extracurriculars, have you thought about board game cafes, roller derby, folk music, Woodcraft Folk, Comic Con type events/groups? Do Toastmasters have a youth section? The Humanists, if she's not religious? I'm just casting around, others may have better ideas. Also, how about Scouts rather than Guides? Activities where there is a lot of interaction but non-verbal might be good...

You will know best whether it's better to stay put or try elsewhere, though a good education in a good school is not to be sniffed at - the learning will last long after the friendships.

One thing I do remember is that people changed a lot between 11 and 14. We just matured at different rates - and friendships do shuffle quite a bit.

I second the advice to try training/therapy in social skills - it would make a big difference - could she read Dale Carnegie?!

It's hard for parents because we can't make friends for them - but we can help by making sure they have a good haircut, skincare, reasonable clothes (even if they're from eBay bundles), contact lenses.

Does she want to move OP?
the bullying is reason enough- if it was just a friendship issue fine but she sounds targeted, why prolong it, only 1 year in it’s fine to move.

might it help in a new school to tell her to chat to everyone and not focus on a few, limit the chance of her getting too focused and subsequently offended.

I’d suggest some sort of counselling or CBT because as @2bazookas says it’s her behaviour that puts people off.

At the same age I was lucky in that there was a group of friends who I joined and that was that but I did find it a bit hard with other girls, I had 2 friends in the same class who I socialised with and one whom I started ballet classes with but both of those weren’t really close friends or “me” friend wise. Then one girl in the friend group towards end of second year in secondary school bullied me so I changed class! Bullied me over something silly but more based on her insecurities.

I wasn’t interested in guides etc though I was brought to a church group for teenagers. I could also be bitchy, over sensitive etc but this was due to lack of confidence over my looks and character in Primary school.

I do think now at school there should be more general talk around friendships how to handle them, excluding people etc. often you’re in either your own groups as I was or by yourself as your DD is but the former have no idea or “care” about the latter, not on purpose just how it is. And your DD gets used to being excluded and by herself.

Sounds like she won’t put up with any shit, which is a good trait to have. I know you mean well but the “beggars can’t be choosers” advice is very off - you’re effectively saying that it’s fine for friends to lie to you and treat you badly, because hey, it’s better than not having any friends.

@catscalledbeanz op it sounds like you have a bright (possibly HFA or ADHD) kid in a shit school, and my concern is all the schools in your area are shit… not good.

Have a look on YouTube for markers of high masking female autism, a strong sense of injustice is one. Anyway, sounds like me at 12 - carbon copy, down to the shit schools. FWIW I’m a successful person with friends and kids and good-ish career and I’m happy - though I needed to get some self understanding of why I was the way I was and the kind of environment I needed in order to thrive. I think your studious daughter would absolutely blossom in an inclusive school which has a higher % of more studious kids, HFA kids, or both - the Venn diagrams overlap is significant there. There are tiny mid-way-between homeschool and normal schools where I live which ND kids love and learn very well at. Could be an option.

I am going to say something which may seem harsh, but from the perspective of someone like your daughter, I think as she’s not old enough to be able to self reflect and understand yet, your job as her parent here is to enable her to find that environment to thrive - what could be more important than that? So I’d be looking at moving somewhere closer to a school or mini school which will suit her better.

In the meantime I’d be getting her some books on social skills / sourcing some good videos to watch together - social skills are a skill and can be learned. Good luck to you and your daughter!

Watching as my DD is very similar but age 10. The reactiveness and judgment are very familiar. She has friends now but hasn’t always and I know she feels on the edge of the group quite often. I am worried about secondary, when kids can be less forgiving of any “oddness”, so following for any tips.

Looking back I was a bit like this too. I think learning to make a cutting retort to any winding up, rather than blowing up, helped me. As she’s bright, your DD should be able to learn to do this - I know it’s not exactly the kind of thing we’d like to teach our kids! but it might help.

I agree these years are difficult for a lot of kids and friendships change a lot. Could she look round and see who else might be lonely? I bet there is someone…

Bullying aside since that's not happening anymore.

Moving schools is the answer - I guess the question that needs asking and answering is whether she is principled and kind, or whether she has a slightly overbearing sense of justice that can come across as judgmental and overbearing. My DD has a friend (former neighbour's child) who is the latter - even down to not being able to hide her feelings on her face. It has led to problem after problem for her - she is similarly isolated. The reality is we all have to learn to rub along (bullying or worse aside) - a lot of children lie about small things at this age, it's really not that big of a deal and there's a kind way to deal with it. And learning to not show every emotion on your face is a good life skill IMO.

She seems to value honesty, rules, doing things right. Army cadets might suit her down to the ground. Discipline very much valued!!

@abitintensetoo why should a child be wearing contact lenses?

@FletchingStraight Well, not everyone likes wearing glasses, or suits them, and they are very affordable now.

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. I'd love to get therapy for her but it's not affordable and asking the school to put her on their waiting list will be pointless.

I do think she may have some form of asd as does her father, brother and other sister- but I cannot see how it would get diagnosed as she functions so well and without the "easy" to see traits her sister shows ( avoiding eye contact and stimming for example) or the educational slow development that flagged dss (he's caught up now with support), then the school referral and diagnosis seems impossible. School 100% would not agree she's got any hidden asd.

I worry about teaching her social skills or suggesting books as I don't want her to feel that I think she's failing in some way. But it is a skill and she would so benefit from learning that I have to consider it, and will look to find sensitive ways to go about it. She has engaged with other books on puberty and growing up so I think this is a great idea.

The area and lack of wealth really do serve to negatively impact her. The schools are dreadful. A typical day will have AT LEAST two free lessons, due to staff shortage/ sickness. Today she had four out of six free- so that's four hours of watching everyone group up together and her reading in the corner. Same yesterday. But we live in a poor area where this school gets the best outcomes. Two of the other options have real violence and drug problems. She has said many times that if she had lessons all day she'd love school. But she doesn't.

I'm so sorry - it sounds really tough, though she's very lucky to have such a lovely and empathic mother.

Would it be worth asking school anyway even if you strongly suspect they'll knock it back - the small chance it will come through would be worth the time spent on the email? (I've just drafted an email for my daughter, who is not obviously struggling academically or socially, but is clearly ND.)

Also, some counselling services provide pro bono services, sometimes funded by a trust. It will obviously depend where you are, but are you sure there is nothing free or at very low cost?

The relationships I built with books at that age are still very meaningful to me! She is lucky to be a great reader.

I hope it all resolves for the better very soon. Adjusting to new places takes time for ND folk - it might well be a lot easier once she's in Y8.

She is both. Principled and kind, but which can come across as overbearing and judgemental.

Thank you again to a pps. All advice is appreciated.

She does have so many positives in her life- the library the librarians and volunteers treat her like their own and love her. They almost compete to recommend books to her. The local book store knows her by name and has offered to print her reviews of books in the online magazine they publish. The ladies in the Red Cross shop keep any teen or ya books they get in in the back for her to pursue before they're put out in store. Relationships with adults are easy for her. But she yearns for friends her own age- the type of friends most of her books include

She’ll find her tribe when she’s older. But appreciate its tough now. I feel very sympathetic and hope things improve.

Anecdotally Friends with teens that struggle socially have signed them up to intense group activities rowing / life guarding / drama school.

Do you have friends with similar aged teens you could invite to do stuff with her? A friend did a sponsored walk with her friend and their teen girls so even though the girls aren’t close there is a “thing” to do.

God the schools do sound bad, so sorry OP.

As a PP suggested, would it be worth investigating scholarships/bursaries to private school as she is very academic? Some private schools virtually are “lessons all day” in that there are clubs or music practice etc going on at lunchtime and breaktime - relatively little “just hanging out” time. And if it’s an academically selective school, she might find more kids there who are similar to her. You’d need to apply for an occasional place but they do crop up.

How are you with friendships, OP? What are you modelling for her as regards relationships?Just as another perspective.

I struggled all through school because my mother instilled in me some deeply odd scripts about friendships (craven people-pleaser, huge, unconscious suppressed rage, very anxious about her children’s friendships, which didn’t help as it just made everything worse), and my father had a differently odd set of beliefs, and it took me years to recognise how unhelpful they were. I flourished at university, and have never struggled with friendships in adulthood.