To be fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay

[Elephantstone1]

although my salary looks decent from the outside. I’m beginning to get really fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay.

so on £60k end up coming out with just around £3k per month from £5k after all taxes (including council tax) have been paid.

we’re not entitled to any help that others may get

my commute costs about £400 a month, but I’ve already paid tax on that money, so i have to earn about £600 a month to pay for it.

i know I’m lucky to be on a decent salary. Just with the col increasing, I’m getting a bit fed up

It's the rich v wealthy thing, essentially. People don't distinguish the two. They really should, especially when discussing taxation.

Only three minutes after my post we’ve got sneering at middle earners. 🙄

If middle earners had mid range expenses then I could sympathise, but they don’t . Middle earners have new cars they cannot afford, mortgages they cannot afford (before interest rates went up ) it’s hard to hear but people just do not live within their means so it’s difficult to listen to them moaning about it when reality hits.

Agreed.

The vast majority of UK folks don't seem to have much of a clue.

When I read threads like this and I see people demanding that people on £60 - £150k pay more tax because of "reasons" while they should not have to (£40k or less), its self-evident we are headed for many years of economic pain while the country gets poorer.

Because that is the reality. The country is much poorer than those people think.

And Labour (while obviously more competent than Tories but that is not saying much) will not be able to fix that either.

So to you folks on £40k who want even more handouts, I have news for you:

They are not coming.

Now you are simply going to get poorer via real wage devaluation, which is pretty much the only mechanism for the UK to become more competitive globally (and thus more productive).

Couldn't higher rate tax payers equally say:

"Suck it up buttercup (or get a higher paying job or two)"

They could indeed. I think far too many people rely on government handouts when they could seek employment.

Wah wah wah grow up

That's a massive assumption - one also routinely levied at people on benefits.

If you pay less tax you are likely to get even less public spending, so then have to pay from your own pocket for private things.

So less nhs & you'll probably have to pay for private for non urgent stuff.

Less money for schools - poorer education or pay for private.

The reality is most of us are poorer than we think we are. There's a gap between what we think we should be able to afford, lifestyle wise, and what we can actually afford.

@7Worfs

Since when is someone earning £60k a ‘middle earner’?

Average pay is £30k. How is a middle earner on double the average?

It is an assumption but anecdotally just look around at all the extensions being built in middle class areas , and new (leased) cars in driveways . These are not 150k earners , these are middle earners , remortgaging to pay for their new new open plan navy blue kitchens.

I already pay for private Health and all the extras, I also do not claim any benefits. What we are asking for is a fairer system for those in the middle, you work dam hard you start to succeed and you get crushed by the rich at the top and abused by those at the bottom.

We just ask for a fairer system for those who would like to achieve and make some thing of them self's not be kept down by those in the top and dragged down by those below who are jealous and not appreciative of those at the bottom who have clawed their way up.

The rich hide their money, the bottom all claim it and the middle pay for it. if you don't like us having a voice tough shit.

This kind of attitude and the tiny violins make my blood boil! People literally think that the better off must subsidise those less well off and that the poor have an immoveable right to other people's (i.e. tax payer's) money. The welfare state exists through public consent and it is only going to alienate the tax paying public more by not acknowledging this and showing a bit of gratitude to those net contributors that keep poverty at bay in this country. Believe it or not, the world doesn't owe anyone a living and perhaps those that think OP should grow up should go to other countries without the safety nets afforded by the tax payer and see what kind of life the poor have over there. Hopefully then they would be capable of a mature and thoughtful discussion rather than mocking those who are paying into the system.

This. You can't have both.

We pay a lot of tax in Denmark, and we have our own issues, but when my family member needed an ambulance the other week, it was here in 30 minutes; plus, you know, no uni fees for the students. They get paid to go to school.

I think of things like that when I pay my tax.

Sorry op, I work full time in a skilled profession (for nhs) and your take home pay is double mine. Please forgive me if I have little sympathy.

@Bumpitybumper

The welfare state exists through public consent and it is only going to alienate the tax paying public more by not acknowledging this and showing a bit of gratitude to those net contributors that keep poverty at bay in this country.

Nail on the head. Things could turn. Just look at how Farage caused Brexit by saying what a lot of people wanted to hear. Nick Clegg did the same to get enough MPs to form the coalition. Elections are won and lost in the "middle" ground - or as Blair said "Mondeo Man". All it needs is some charismatic politician to start banging the drum about welfare/benefits and they could very well get some power towards tackling what a lot of people think is a very generous (too generous) welfare/benefits system. Neither of the main parties want to rock the boat, but a modern day Farage, or a minority/niche party could very well disturb the equilibrium.

There is! It's called the public subsidy, and all public transport gets some. Of course if the Tories hadn't privatised public transport it would be even cheaper but it's very important their friends should make profit..... And although this is rather out of date, that subsidy mostly benefits the better off (like you) rather than the poorer parts of society....
https://equalitytrust.org.uk/resource/taken-ride-how-uk-public-transport-subsidies-entrench-inequality

The differenve between Denmark and the UK is that everyone pays in.

Low earners? Yes.
Middle Earners? Yes.
Higher Earners? Yes.

There is no comparably large tax free emount (£12.57k) like there is in the UK.

Vast swathes (over 50%) of the UK population pay £0 income tax. Also £0 NI (pensioners).

Thats why the UK is failing, and that is also why "taxing higher earners more" will not work. They are already maxed out and will respond to higher marginal taxes by working less.

What the UK actually needs is to BROADEN the tax base. Like Denmark.

When you have people paying £0 income tax and negligible NI using the NHS, they simply don't value it.

The culture of dependency in the UK is immense, and what makes the UK even worse is the wealth effect of the inflated house prices, which then makes people "feel" that they are better off than they actually are.

But thats the thing:

House "prices" are NOT real income. And in the UK, the vast majority of people are low income by developed country standards.

So now we will see house prices reset by 10-20% (due to much higher interest rates), while real incomes get squeezed by inflation.

Ergo, the middle class in the UK will be eviscerated due to high taxes and higher costs.

And then good luck to the lower income people on here asking for handouts, and to their view that the more well off people need to be paying more tax.

I am a low earner and yes I get help but I do not bring home anywhere near £3k a month even with UC and child benefit added. Want to swap? You can work full time for peanuts and have the joy of having to rely on UC to top it up.

You do know that many people who get welfare pay tax too? I get UC and I also pay tax. Admittedly I am not a net contributor but I'm sick of all this "taxpayer" talk, I am still a taxpayer.

Many of us lived like that, myself until I got to my 40`s and decided it was time to do some thing about it, I quit my 20 year career got off my arse went to university got a decent degree, re trained and now get squeezed to fuck. So please drop the pity me party.

The issue we have is that when you do this and work bloody well hard to elevate your self you are kicked in the teeth by those at the very top and those at the very bottom. Were expected to suck it up buttercup and give it all way to those bellow and those at the top. Well how about NO.

If you don't like your situation, do some thing about it and see how it feels when a great big wall is put in your way and your taxed to buggery for wanting to better yourself.

@TheThinkingGoblin

There is no comparably large tax free emount (£12.57k) like there is in the UK. Vast swathes (over 50%) of the UK population pay £0 income tax. Also £0 NI (pensioners).

Nail on the head. Far too few people in the UK pay enough (if any) tax. That leaves the lion's share of the burden on "workers" earning average wages. It's just not sustainable.

As I've said above, successive governments have turned "paying tax" into a negative thing with the likes of doubling the tax free allowance - just remember the announcements in Parliament making it a good thing that fewer people will pay it! Bonkers. Last year, the NIC thresholds were raised, so fewer people will now pay NIC either! All disincentives for the lower paid to work harder and earn more as they become accustomed to not paying tax on their part time minimum wage jobs, just watching the tax credits or universal credit rolling in!

At the older end, pensioners threaten to vote for another party whenever either main party suggests taxing them more, even though they already pay less tax than workers with the same incomes.

The whole political narrative needs to change, we need to call a halt to government "tax reducing" initiatives and it just spreads like a virus and before you know it everyone wants to pay less tax, legally or illegally.

The tax base needs broadening and, yes, people who currently pay little or no tax (compared to workers), need to pay more. Trouble is the politicians are too pathetic and scared to tell it how it is.

Not really, you are just paying back a bit of the money you take from other taxpayers.

Of course I know everyone in the country pays tax in some form whether it be VAT, council tax or income tax.

I am using the term 'tax payer' in this context to represent someone that is an overall net contributor of tax.