Page 2 | To think that surely known coercion invalidates medical consent ?

Coercion · 2023-06-13T11:49:08+00:00

If all medical professionals are aware that a patient is being coerced/forced and this was in their medical notes then any consent given is invalidated ? Im in a situation where it being told that’s not The case - that if I signed then it’s valid consent despite the fact they recorded on multiple occasions my disclosures of abuse and being forced, coerced and threatened. They even witnessed it and noted it. Im told ‘ultimately you were an adult and consented’ This isn’t right is it ?

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 13:55

007DoubleOSeven · 13/06/2023 13:44

I'm so sorry you went through that and that the gmc responded the way they did.

What did you want from the gmc?

You should probably take legal advice from a specialist solicitor but I think (and I'm not legally trained) that there's probably a threshold in law for what counts as coercion and if they gave you time to consider then it may not be legally seen as coercion. Don't forget, coercive abuse only became recognised in law recently within a relationship.

Nowadays, I would expect such a situation to be referred to safeguading and a protocol followed, I have no idea if any such thing was involved when you went through this. If they followed all the steps as per their policies at the time, then I can't see they would be able to acknowledge wrong doing and I'd expect any change to this would need a strong legal challenge. If their policies have since changed for the better then any solicitor would ask what would be gained from attempting this.

It's deeply unfair and I understand that this must be incredibly difficult for you. It sounds as though as if it's had a huge impact on your life and I can't imagine what that has been like for you.

But I think, you need to be clear on what you want from the gmc. If you simply want acknowledgement so that you can obtain closure and move on, that's one thing. But any admission of liability opens them up to legal action and I'm not surprised they've taken the stance they have.

If what you're seeking is recognition by them that you were coerced and that's all then a solicitor could advise you what chances you had of seeking this through legal action while waiving any rights to redress. It seems like it would be a long shot though.

If you are only looking for closure then I hope you can find a way to get it without pursuing the gmc any further. So many people agree that it was wrong what you went through that even if your case is not strong enough to be tested in a court of law, I hope the agreement of others (including professionals) gives you the recognition you need.

The law isn't perfect and while the pursuit of justice is crucial to us all, when faced with overwhelming odds sometimes it's helpful to remember that just because the law is fallible, it doesn't lesson the injustice of what you went through or deny the coercion you faced.

I don’t think the GMC or NHS will ever admit anything even with all the proof in the notes.

I just want someone to say to me it was wrong, I see you and I hear you and it was so wrong. You were violated and it wasn’t ok

I don’t see my mother. I very rarely speak to her . I just feel so stuck in the past it may as well have been yesterday it’s so raw and I feel like it’s being dismissed and I feel blamed because I shakily and tearfully scribbled on a bit of paper after threats

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Readyplayerthr33 · 13/06/2023 13:57

It sounds like they decided to use their own judgement rather than actual follow the law around consent or do anything to help.

If you couldn’t say no to your mother, then how could you raise a baby? That’s probably what they saw. An 18 year old still not able to stand on her own 2 feet or just tell her mother no, so they made a decision that it was for the best and they ignored your request for social services involvement etc.

They had your consent and they just went ahead with it because they probably all decided it was just for the best. They treated you like a child. They shouldn’t have. They shouldn’t have used their own judgement and their own opinion to decide what you had to go through.

Have you had counselling to help you through the trauma?

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 13/06/2023 13:58

How long ago was this? I ask, because I was a pregnant teen and refused point blank to have an abortion.
At the age of 18 you were legally an adult, could you have contacted a women's refuge for help or the local council?

RiseYpres · 13/06/2023 13:58

Oh OP. ❤

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 13:59

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 13/06/2023 13:58

How long ago was this? I ask, because I was a pregnant teen and refused point blank to have an abortion.
At the age of 18 you were legally an adult, could you have contacted a women's refuge for help or the local council?

2000

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Vavazoom · 13/06/2023 13:59

OP, this is said with kindness.

Sometimes in life we don’t get justice. Sometimes it’s because the system doesn’t work in our favour, sometimes it is because we don’t have the strength for the fight and sometimes it is because life is very very unfair. Regardless of the reason why, there are times when the best thing we can do is find a way to live with what happened. You have to give yourself space to grieve for the person you would have been, or the life (or indeed the child) that you would have had if this thing had not been done to you. You will never be that person or have that life, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be happy. Nothing can give you back the person that you were before, and fighting for justice in the face of overwhelming opposition won’t right the wrong. Sometimes the best thing that you can do for yourself is accept that you were wronged and learn to love and value the person that you are now.

I was raped many years ago and spent a long time suffering from PTSD. I began to recover once I let go of the idea that justice would bring back the person I was before and the person I would have been if it hadn’t happened. I would never have got justice and the fight would have destroyed me. I grieved for a long time for the person I lost and eventually I found happiness and peace in accepting the person I became. I am stronger and kinder than I would ever have been if it hadn’t happened. I hope that you can learn to live with what happened to you and find a similar peace and acceptance.

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 14:00

Readyplayerthr33 · 13/06/2023 13:57

It sounds like they decided to use their own judgement rather than actual follow the law around consent or do anything to help.

If you couldn’t say no to your mother, then how could you raise a baby? That’s probably what they saw. An 18 year old still not able to stand on her own 2 feet or just tell her mother no, so they made a decision that it was for the best and they ignored your request for social services involvement etc.

They had your consent and they just went ahead with it because they probably all decided it was just for the best. They treated you like a child. They shouldn’t have. They shouldn’t have used their own judgement and their own opinion to decide what you had to go through.

Have you had counselling to help you through the trauma?

Yes so much counselling but it is still hurting

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Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 14:00

Vavazoom · 13/06/2023 13:59

OP, this is said with kindness.

Sometimes in life we don’t get justice. Sometimes it’s because the system doesn’t work in our favour, sometimes it is because we don’t have the strength for the fight and sometimes it is because life is very very unfair. Regardless of the reason why, there are times when the best thing we can do is find a way to live with what happened. You have to give yourself space to grieve for the person you would have been, or the life (or indeed the child) that you would have had if this thing had not been done to you. You will never be that person or have that life, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be happy. Nothing can give you back the person that you were before, and fighting for justice in the face of overwhelming opposition won’t right the wrong. Sometimes the best thing that you can do for yourself is accept that you were wronged and learn to love and value the person that you are now.

I was raped many years ago and spent a long time suffering from PTSD. I began to recover once I let go of the idea that justice would bring back the person I was before and the person I would have been if it hadn’t happened. I would never have got justice and the fight would have destroyed me. I grieved for a long time for the person I lost and eventually I found happiness and peace in accepting the person I became. I am stronger and kinder than I would ever have been if it hadn’t happened. I hope that you can learn to live with what happened to you and find a similar peace and acceptance.

Thankyou ❤️

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RandomMess · 13/06/2023 14:02

The treatment you received was utterly horrific

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 13/06/2023 14:05

Coercion · 13/06/2023 13:59

2000

Show quote history

I was a teen mum in '96 so there was definitely help around at that time.

As you were an 18 year old I don't understand how your mum could enforce anything?

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 14:18

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 13/06/2023 14:05

I was a teen mum in '96 so there was definitely help around at that time.

As you were an 18 year old I don't understand how your mum could enforce anything?

Show quote history

I lived in her house and I had to abide by her rules. I had a job and a boyfriend and was thinking of moving out. I got pregnant but got severe hyperemesis and this is what gave her power. I was too sick to move and she relentlessly bullied me. When my boyfriend called she had told him I didn’t want to see him or speak to him and then she took total control.
She had always been emotionally abusive and I think she was panicking about me wanting to leave home

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Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 14:20

She had told him that but then told me he had called and said he didn’t want anything to do with me anymore. She was manipulative and clever and then took my mobile phone (she hated it from the second I got it) so then i had no way to verify anything and I was so so unwell it was horrendous

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Maray1967 · 13/06/2023 14:20

I am so very sorry. What happened to you was very wrong. I was much older than you were in 2000. I had thought this might have been in the 70s.

Unless you have a lot of money or a keen lawyer who will pursue this for you, you might need to focus on getting the support you need now. I hope very much you get that support. 💐

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 14:22

Maray1967 · 13/06/2023 14:20

I am so very sorry. What happened to you was very wrong. I was much older than you were in 2000. I had thought this might have been in the 70s.

Unless you have a lot of money or a keen lawyer who will pursue this for you, you might need to focus on getting the support you need now. I hope very much you get that support. 💐

I can’t pursue this s I know I will hit the same wall over and over and it will make me unwell. I’m just so hurt by it all and I just need an outlet .
Im really grateful for all the kindness here it means a lot because I really felt so frustrated with the GMC response and I was so upset

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007DoubleOSeven · 13/06/2023 14:31

You WERE violated, op and it WAS wrong, very wrong. Your experience and treatment there was horrific and it's appalling it happened - it never should have happened.

I don't know if it would still be worth speaking with a solicitor with experience in pursuing medical mistreatment, if only to help you find some peace of mind even if you don't intend to pursue further but I'm by no means urging you, your welfare comes before all else and if you don't believe it will help then ignore it.

What you describe sounds more like something from the 60s and its appalling that it happened as recently as 2000.

You can talk here as much as you need to

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 18:11

007DoubleOSeven · 13/06/2023 14:31

You WERE violated, op and it WAS wrong, very wrong. Your experience and treatment there was horrific and it's appalling it happened - it never should have happened.

I don't know if it would still be worth speaking with a solicitor with experience in pursuing medical mistreatment, if only to help you find some peace of mind even if you don't intend to pursue further but I'm by no means urging you, your welfare comes before all else and if you don't believe it will help then ignore it.

What you describe sounds more like something from the 60s and its appalling that it happened as recently as 2000.

You can talk here as much as you need to

Thankyou I really appreciate how kind everyone has been on here. Iv what had the worst day as ever though it was so long ago the response to my complaint just upset me as it’s like they are minimising it and victim blaming and I was so upset. I really appreciate everyone being so nice and validation for my feelings

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Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 18:12

Sorry for the typos my phone seems to be playing up a bit

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007DoubleOSeven · 13/06/2023 18:37

Coercion · 13/06/2023 18:11

Thankyou I really appreciate how kind everyone has been on here. Iv what had the worst day as ever though it was so long ago the response to my complaint just upset me as it’s like they are minimising it and victim blaming and I was so upset. I really appreciate everyone being so nice and validation for my feelings

Show quote history

As very hard as it is, try not to take their response personally. Their reply isn't personal, even though its about such a huge part of your life. Its a response carefully drafted to cover themselves legally, emotions haven't gone into it. It's a non-emotive, legally-approved response from an organising body, it isn't an empathetic reaction to the trauma you've been through.

Oblomov23 · 13/06/2023 18:56

I'm sorry this happened to you 23 years ago, but maybe your focus is misdirected. Your'll never get an apology from nhs, they just don't give it. (I love a good fight especially when there has been an injustice, but I've learnt by fighting primary school and SS that it is not very satisfying). Fighting legally for numerical recompense is also unlikely. Counselling is probably your best bet.

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 19:30

Oblomov23 · 13/06/2023 18:56

I'm sorry this happened to you 23 years ago, but maybe your focus is misdirected. Your'll never get an apology from nhs, they just don't give it. (I love a good fight especially when there has been an injustice, but I've learnt by fighting primary school and SS that it is not very satisfying). Fighting legally for numerical recompense is also unlikely. Counselling is probably your best bet.

I’m not interested in any kid of compensation , I did want some kind of apology but can see they will never say sorry 😞

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Oblomov23 · 13/06/2023 19:33

No, I doubt they will.

I took 2 complaints as far it would go, School complaint to DofE. Was told 'we don't apologise. Ever'!

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 20:24

Oblomov23 · 13/06/2023 19:33

No, I doubt they will.

I took 2 complaints as far it would go, School complaint to DofE. Was told 'we don't apologise. Ever'!

They aren’t the only ones but it’s sort of expected from the nhs I suppose. My mother on the other hand - any time I ever dared to mention it she said ‘oh you’ll NEVER let me forget it will you ??’

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Greentree1 · 13/06/2023 20:32

I don't know what you want, you agreed and signed forms to a procedure, you think you were pressurised into doing it. It was a long time ago, how long? What do you want money or what? Just let it go you need to enjoy your life.

TheCheeseTray · 13/06/2023 20:37

007DoubleOSeven · 13/06/2023 14:31

You WERE violated, op and it WAS wrong, very wrong. Your experience and treatment there was horrific and it's appalling it happened - it never should have happened.

I don't know if it would still be worth speaking with a solicitor with experience in pursuing medical mistreatment, if only to help you find some peace of mind even if you don't intend to pursue further but I'm by no means urging you, your welfare comes before all else and if you don't believe it will help then ignore it.

What you describe sounds more like something from the 60s and its appalling that it happened as recently as 2000.

You can talk here as much as you need to

This.

You were violated. You did not give consent. Your mother is a vile excuse for a human being.

I have experienced abuse - numerous times. By my father.

On one occasion he went to hit me - over getting a question on my homework wrong - I ducked and hit my head on the marble table and his hand connected hard with the back on my head. He knocked me out. When I came too - I was on my way to the local hospital. I needed stitches in my head. I was asked how I had injured myself - I told them I had been hit by my father - local MP etc - nothing every happened to him and I was hit on the way home for telling them.

have you tried writing to your local MP or a solicitor who specialises in cases of consent, abortion or abuse? To see what they say.

absolutely horrendous treatment and I’m sorry you were let down by the people who were supposed to love you the most.

an apology is not enough, nor compensation. I really hope you are in a happy place now and surrounded by those that do respect your boundaries etc

Original poster

Coercion · 13/06/2023 20:55

Greentree1 · 13/06/2023 20:32

I don't know what you want, you agreed and signed forms to a procedure, you think you were pressurised into doing it. It was a long time ago, how long? What do you want money or what? Just let it go you need to enjoy your life.

I think my issue is that I knew at the time I’d begged for help I thought I hadn’t begged enough.
I tried to get my notes in 2005 and wasn’t allowed I tried again in 2021 and got them and was so shocked how each person had carefully documented the coercion, that my mother insisted, my begging for help for SS or the police , how they kept writing I was stating I wanted to continue the pregnancy but they needed to tell me to reconsider and plans to keep rebooking me etc etc

So it’s just made it raw again I think ? And angry. I don’t want compensation I think I wanted recognition that this was wrong legally and morally , an apology ?

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