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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that children shouldn't have to give their ethnicity when filling in library surveys?

64 replies

bookwormmum · 21/02/2008 17:51

Not sure if this is going to post twice as I hit the enter key by mistake!

My dd took part in a children's activity in the local library today, making their own decorated truck which ties in with the exhibition in the branch library, of the Grand Truck road that runs through India/Pakistan.

Dd duly completed her colourful truck and was presented with a children's survey form to complete by the librarian. She whizzed through it until she came to the last question which asked her ethnicity. Cue one confused daughter. She had no idea what ethnicity meant although perhaps it was the word itself that threw her (I was trying to work out a way to explain it myself having spent the past seven years saying that everyone was equal regardless of where they were born or what colour their skin was). I can see why they want to know which people in the community are taking part in these events but on the other hand, I resent being pigeon-holed like this and I often refuse to state my ethnicity. Children are children IMHO. Does it matter if they're Asian- British, Asian-European or Asian-other?? To pick the first three examples of the list - there were about 20 categories .

OP posts:
FAQ · 21/02/2008 17:52

I guess because they need/want to know that all members of the community are accessing the activities??

FAQ · 21/02/2008 17:52

I guess because they need/want to know that all members of the community are accessing the activities??

Twiglett · 21/02/2008 17:55

Well I think one could argue that a sense of identity is an important aspect of a sense of self. By knowing where one comes from one knows more about oneself surely? I am proud of my identity, mongrel though it may be. I hope my children are proud of theirs, even though theirs are even more confused.

This is completely divorced from surveys which surely one can choose to answer or not.

ladette · 21/02/2008 17:58

Presumably it was optional? I don't think they are trying to pigeon-hole anyone. More like FAQ says, just trying to assess who is and isn't using the services to help decide how best to attract people who aren't taking advantage of what's on offer.

FrannyandZooey · 21/02/2008 17:58

they are trying to make sure that they are reaching all sections of the community

Original poster
bookwormmum · 21/02/2008 18:02

I wouldn't argue that we should all know where we come from but I don't like it being asked on forms- I never have done, right from being a stroppy teenager! I can't express it very well but it's something to do with my daughter being taught equality and diversity is a good thing on one hand and then being asked which category of person she falls into on the other. Go back a generation or so my daughter would be a totally different category anyway .

The librarian present would have seen what 'ethnicities' were accessing her activities as well.

OP posts:
Mercy · 21/02/2008 18:03

Agree with teh other posters.

However, I've often been unable to find a category which fits/describes my ethnicity however many options there are - and end up ticking 'other'

FrannyandZooey · 21/02/2008 18:11

would you object to being asked male or female?

potoroo · 21/02/2008 18:14

I agree with bookwormmum. I found this quite odd when I replied for a library card. Particularly since culturally DH, DS, DD and I are all Australian/British (DS and DD born in UK, DH and I born in Australia), but our ethnicity is mixed - white and Chinese.

bluefox · 21/02/2008 18:22

I hate being asked this and never answer. It is irrelevant (or should be).

kaballie · 21/02/2008 18:29

I am really proud of my daughters ethnicity and don't mind at all when asked for it. It is really important to make sure that activities are reaching all areas of the community. If you are opposed to giving it, then don't. I don't think that there is anything sinister in asking for ethnicity. Infact I think it shows how far as a society we have come, that we are ensuring that everyone is included as much as possible.

It desn't stop 'everyone being equal' by asking for ethnicity and surely this would be a great opportunity to discuss the differences between people with a child - we're not all the same and ethnicity does have something to do with our cultural differences surely? Something to be celebrated rather than swept under the carpet.

Poor old librarian who has to guess everyones ethnicity. Imagine getting one wrong. The uproar!

Upwind · 21/02/2008 18:37

I agree with the OP and always refuse to answer that question too

kaballie · 21/02/2008 18:49

Can I just ask, without being jumped on...If those who object to being asked are of any ethnic origin (other than white British)? Just interesting to know the reasons behind it. Although I guess you may not want to say!

nooka · 21/02/2008 18:53

How old is your dd bookwormmum? I don't think my two have been asked this wort of ting - but then also not sure if they've done surveys either. Ethnicity is asked simply to check that the people using any given service are representative of the community the service is aimed at, so that if there are groups who appear to be excluded something can be done about it. Obviously it's optional, but if too many people opt out then it's very difficult to draw any conclusions about it. The librarian's observations won't count I'm afraid (partly because you can't actually tell what someone's background might be just by looking at them or listening to them). I'm always a bit sad ticking the "White British" box - it seems so boring!

Upwind · 21/02/2008 18:55

Kaballie - yes I am

and I won't say which

But that is one reason the results of those questionaires would not be very much use. Your ethnic background might influence your willingness to provide the info.

Original poster
bookwormmum · 21/02/2008 18:56

I'm "White British" myself and so is my daughter. I like to think that equality means that things really are 'colour-blind'. I know they're gathering stats to prove that they are targetting everyone in the community to participate in events but on a personal level, I don't like it.

OP posts:
cat64 · 21/02/2008 18:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

nooka · 21/02/2008 18:57

Ooops - "wort of ting"!

Original poster
bookwormmum · 21/02/2008 18:57

My dd is seven btw.

OP posts:
MicrowaveOnly · 21/02/2008 19:00

so agree cat64. There seems to be an unhealthy obsession with race in the public services. How can you explain to your kids that race doesn't matter when so many forms/public servants go on about it!

kaballie · 21/02/2008 19:00

BWM
It would be lovely if things were colour blind. But the reality is that they're not. And to get to a stage where things are colour blind we will have to go through giving out details like this that help organisations to work towards it. The sentiment is lovely though and I think we all pretty much agree here how things should be - we just have different ideas on the best way to get there!

hecate · 21/02/2008 19:03

kaballie - I'm white brit, dh is black african and kids are - well, depends what the choices are on the form.

I honestly don't care, neither does His Nibs. We tick the box. It harms us in no way.

VanillaPumpkin · 21/02/2008 19:08

You can always leave that question out. It is optional.

cory · 21/02/2008 19:09

I've never understood exactly what they mean by ethnicity anyway. Is it the ethnic group you were born into or the one you were raised in? Is it about race or culture? What about an adopted child who might have no recollection of his original inheritance as he has been raised in a different group? I have several friends in this category. Or what about a family that has been in this country for generations? I have a sneaky suspicion that they would still count as "other" if their skin looked different, but not if they were white. My children count as White other/British (I am Swedish) but what about their children? It's all very confusing.
I am also intrigued to see that the box for Chinese is not in the Asian section - my geography is clearly a little confused.

VictorianSqualor · 21/02/2008 19:12

Thing is with most community groups for people of different ethnic origins (by which I mean people whose family aren't from here, not skin clour) there are groups and the such to try and help these people integrate and access all areas of the public sector available to them, if they see, for example, a lack of asian families using the libraires they can aim more information towards the groups designated to help those people so that they do and can use the facilities, same as agewise and genderwise.

I think people can get too over protective with these kind of questionnaires, they are merely research that can be used to decide on how to advertise/promote public services, surely we should be pleased that an effort is being made?

As for the librarian being able to see who is using the resources I think that's a silly notion tbh, there are often as many as ten-twenty different libraries in a county, each manned by a variety of staff at different times of day/week, what should they do ask the librarians to keep tally charts of what they assume the ethnicity of the users to be?