To not think this is ‘giving to receive’

[Cellocecilia]

DH are having a disagreement and I’m hoping a poll and input from strangers can help settle this debate.

my New Year’s resolution this year was to start reciprocating energy and effort. I am a very generous person, as is DH, gift giving is both of our ‘love languages’ (if you believe in that stuff) so we always go above and beyond for people’s birthdays, Christmas, new pets, new babies, retirements etc.

I have a very close friend (best friends since we were 10) and we both got married around the same time, we have always got gifts for her husbands birthday, Christmas, when he passed some big exams for work last year we sent a nice card and gifts etc. however it’s dawned on me they have never, and I mean never got anything for my husband, not for his birthday, nothing for him specifically for Christmas (always a family gift) they don’t even regularly message him on his birthday.

So this year I have decided that we are not going to get him (friends husband) anything for his birthday, in my view I am reciprocating effort, DH thinks it’s giving to receive.

note this isn’t a financial issue on their behalf, so I don’t feel it’s unfair to stop putting in so much effort for nice, thoughtful gifts when they don’t do the same.

So AIBU that this isn’t giving to receive and it’s somewhat normal to not get things for people who never make an effort for you?

I'd stop. I had similar and did the same. A friend advertised her birthday every year. I made a fuss. My birthday the week. Several year of her getting spoiled and me not even getting a text.

You don't strike me as naturally generous and I don't understand the purpose of your resolution.

A naturally generous person isn't this petty.

It's fine not to be generous and to want to exchange goods and services as a market of the relationship.

But that's not the definition of generosity.

The whole post, idea of the thread, resolution and action just strikes me as score keeping and small.

Do what you want but as you've asked for opinions thats mine.

Your husband's reading of your behaviour seems accurate. You don't give gifts to bring joy or express love; you give gifts when you can be pretty certain you'll get material goods in return.

Rather than focusing on who is right or wrong, read the signals; since they never reciprocate, don’t buy for them.

I'm don't think you were giving to receive at all otherwise you would have realised long ago that they were not reciprocating. I think it's totally reasonable to stop making certain efforts when you realise the other party has. I would feel odd giving to someone else's DH if they never gave to mine or their children if they never gave to ours.

Having said that I don't think anything has to be so prescribed and formulaic and if you sometimes feel like getting the DH a birthday gift then do. If they sometimes do then they could. It's not all or nothing.

I actually think it's good they didn't feel the need to reciprocate and everyone should just do what they feel like doing!

Just a card is the right thing to do.
‘Forget’ to send one next year and from then on. If they have the brass neck to notice or mention it say I didn’t think we were doing presents for dhs.

I have always bought presents for people which I think have been thoughtful gifts because I suppose that’s how I am. Had a family falling out about ‘ let’s do secret Santa’ I said ok, then the secret Santa only involved my two adult kids , me and my husband after other ‘family’ members said they didn’t want to do it because ‘I’m an only child, why should my mum by for someone not related to her when she should buy for me’ …well this mum who I thoughtfully spent a lot of money on a book I thought she would like, the year before gave me a luggage label from the pound shop. So now I’m saving myself loads of money because I’m not buying for people I’m not ‘related’ to anymore. Some people are just tight and grabby, even if it takes years to realise it!

I have a friend who does this. She sends anniversary cards to everyone she has even a passing acquaintance with. She sent birthday cards to my children for years. Her husband was posted abroad ( with her and their children) when their children were born. They are older than mine. I never sent cards, yet she started it and carried it on for years. She has many godchildren. She spends hours choosing cards with meaningful verses in for their birthdays. She won't hear of just sticking a tenner in the card. Oh no there must be a meaningful gift. Its meaningful to her . They are all in their thirties and I bet would prefer a tenner rather than some tat. When her son and daughter moved in with their respective partners she started buying presents for the partner's parents and siblings. More hours and money spent buying tat that the others feel obligated to reciprocate. Its like a weird drug . Constantly buying for others ,constantly searching for validation.Look at meeee, I'm the kindest of the kind.

Maybe they are giving something in their love language that you haven't actually noticed, like acts of service that you haven't realised cost them a lot of effort.

No, I read this is a person who really wants to be loved and valued. Not kindest of the kind competitor, but perhaps she doesn’t have much/enough love or validation in her life. Your post is harsh and unkind.

I noticed this when I had DC too. For years I'd bought gifts/gave cash to children of close friends/family. They didn't reciprocate with mine so I stopped. One then started to buy me gifts and I really don't want them, I don't reciprocate and I'm hoping they'll stop 😂

Completely confused as to what 'AIBU' vote is,

but

Your dh is right - if you enjoy choosing and shopping and giving things, and are only stopping because you realise they haven't done the same, then it does feel like there is an element of 'giving to receive' in there.

OTOH, I'd have never started it in the first place.

Also, if I were the friend, I would have said from the outset "Let's not make life any more complicated by starting to buy presents for our boyfriends / then fiancés / then husbands - we are the 2 that are friends, let's either just keep it at that, or (preferably) stop getting each other presents now we are adults"

So I don't think you WBU to not get him things.

No, I don't blame you at all.

I had a very close friend and would always buy her entire family presents throughout the year.
When I came to have my own DC and was a struggling single parent, I realised that they never reciprocated. Not even once.

I stopped.

You sound like a genuinely lovely couple btw

Youve made a rod for your back here. Just because YOUR ‘love language’ is receiving gifts, it doesn’t mean your friends feel that way.
You have spent time, money and effort when nobody asked you to and all you really wanted was to buy your friend’s DH a social obligation to do the same back. He probably would rather not have the gift and might feel a bit relieved when you stop. It is too full on.
I would in his position.

This may sound harsh, and it may or may not be true in her case, but I would bet in the majority of cases this is what it is about.

I have been friends with her for 40 years. Her husband adores her as do her children. She had a very difficult childhood and has 'saviour syndrome' as a result. She is used by people because she finds it impossible to say no to even the most outrageous request. She does the present thing because it is impossible not to. She must express love in a concrete( plastic) way and then people will like her and it will all be okay. She knows very well that I think she should get counselling to deal with her issues. We have talked about it many,many times. My husband is one of 5. All have married and had children who have now had children. That's an enormous family. She said once " wow ,how many Christmas presents do you have to buy. It must take you months'. I just said " no ,they decided years ago not to do gifts and, even if they did , it would be my husbands job not mine'. It seemed to be a total revation that you could love people,and they could love you, without buying stuff.

Agree with this also

I've never met people who give gifts on such an extravagant level, that they are spending months sourcing the perfect gift for their mate's husband! Unless you are celebrating these occasions in person (e.g. out for dinner to celebrate) then spending gifts in very OTT.

I would find this completely overwhelming and not reciprocating would be my cue for you to stop.

I hear of people doing this regularly. There's a realisation that effort is one way ie from them. They decide to stop making the effort. That's fine.
What's not fine is if its a kind of 'let's see how ghey like it' or ' that'll teach them' scenario. I'd say on the whole no one says anything because they really don't care. They're perfectly happy to not recieve a present (or whatever) if it obligated them to do the same for you. I've been both of geese people. When I've been the reciever I believe the giver thinks gheir effort is worth a lot more than ghan I think, so whilst I acknowledge the 7am text, message on FB, maybe a hand delivered card or you bringing a special lunch to my work...I really don't care. Its nice....ish....but if you don't want to do it don't. I shants be tying posters to lampposts on your 40th.

I’d say you’re both right, you are giving to receive if you’re deciding to stop because you’re not getting the same (or anything) back. But I think it’s also right to stop if they’re not reciprocating.

I had a friend who spent alot of time and effort getting me thoughtful, usually expensive gifts. And I hated it because I don’t have the same budget, time, headspace (or frankly desire) to reciprocate. It did feel like an obligation to reciprocate and I started to feel resentful that I felt I had to just because she liked doing it.

We now go out for a meal together in lieu of presents and it feels much better to me. Take your cue from them and dial it back or stop completely.

This is quite mad, OP. You decided to repeatedly give your friend's husband expensive presents that required a lot of effort to track down, for his birthday, Christmas, exam passing etc, because you say that you like doing this and giving presents is your way of expressing love. Now you seem to be cross that your friend and/or her husband don't reciprocate, despite the fact that they may have been mortified or puzzled by these presents down the years, but have been unable to find a tactful way to ask you to desist?

I have been friends with my best friend for over a quarter of a century, and not only have I never given her husband a present, I almost never give her birthday presents -- I've only got a vague enough idea of when her birthday is, and I have absolutely no idea when her husband's is. Yet I love and value her. I suppose neither of us is particularly focused on things, and she has a small, though beautiful house.

So of course you're no being unreasonable to stop buying presents for someone, but I think it would also be reasonable to stop congratulating yourself for your own 'generosity' and implicitly criticising other people for not going to such lengths with present-giving.

My mother made all 3 of us children ( now 58,57,56) a Christmas cake every year once we had our own homes. When my father was very,very frail she said that she wouldn't be able to do it any more ( too knackered caring for him). I have never ,ever liked Christmas cake. Neither has my middle brother. My youngest brother immediately ordered a whole load of Christmas goodies from Betty's of Harrogate and Fortnums. He had wanted to for years but couldn't because he didn't want to look as if he didn't appreciate mums cake. She's my mother. She made the cakes because she wanted to. I didn't want one.I have said a million times " No need mum ,I don't like Christmas cake". I am not sorry they have stopped. She is 84 now and can't manage stodgy ,rich things. My middle brother married a few years ago at 48. His MIL is much younger than our mother . The first Christmas after they married she turned up at mums house with a Christmas cake she had baked . Mum now has to buy a tin of M and S biscuits every year and wrap them in case DILs mother turns up with a cake . She gets quite exasperated at being given something she doesn't want and having to do something in return. Well yes mum. It's a pain isn't it.

No, I read this is a person who really wants to be loved and valued. Not kindest of the kind competitor, but perhaps she doesn’t have much/enough love or validation in her life. Your post is harsh and unkind.

I agree with this - and the posters further update confirms it.

There's also the scenario where someone genuinely wants to do something nice for others, not for their own validation or to feel good about themselves.

I would have been very like OP - really thoughtful & spending effort & time finding meaningful gifts. Also a bit like the person mentioned here - going above & beyond with gifts / cards for all & sundry.

It was mostly because I like people & doing nice things! However, in counselling, I did realise that no effort is without a cost - financial, time, emotional & realised when doing all this thinking of others I was failing to think of my own needs & that of my DC

While I still buy more gifts /remember more birthdays & life events than most, I try & do so with thought - I ask myself why I'm doing it, recognise it may not a need the other person has, and decide if I can / want to proceed. It means I remember my siblings' spouses birthdays & send cards, but do so as that connection is something I want to foster. Other choices I made before I've reevaluated & stopped.

I think you sound great OP & YANBU to stop gift buying in this instance.

You aren't the generous, gift giving person you think you are otherwise this wouldn't bother you in the slightest. It never ever occurred to me to give my best friend's husband a gift let alone anything for passing exams. A text of congratulations is all I would even think of doing. You chose to extend yourself and now in a huff. Your dh is right here.

Where did you get that OP is in a 'huff'? 🤔

She has had a realisation & is reconsidering her approach.

@WhereYouLeftIt
"Oh, Penny. I know you think you are being generous, but the foundation of gift giving is reciprocity. You haven't given me a gift. You've given me an obligation."

I don't watch Big Bang Theory but I wanted to say thanks for posting this. This is an absolutely fantastically brilliant line - kudos to whoever wrote this. It's brilliant, funny, clever and an accurately accerbic take on gift giving in modern life.

Really made me laugh.