Sister-in-law's wedding. Would you expect time off work to be paid or unpaid?

[saltandvinegardiscos]

I've got a friend who works as a TA. She's asked for leave from work for a day, so she can go to her husband's sister's wedding.

She's fuming, because work has said she can take the day, but it will be unpaid.

Personally, I think that's fair. The policy says it's at the discretion of the headteacher.

Anyone else who works in schools or in jobs where you can't just book annual leave, what would you expect in this circumstance?

Well, several posters have said she's lucky to be getting the day off at all.

She is lucky to get the day off and yes as a TA it would be unpaid, going by the schools that I have worked in.

@Kitcaterpillar you are conflating several unrelated things.
TA's cannot 'manage their own time' because their primary job is to be present during school hours and they need ratios. It's not being treated like a child to have a job that you cannot 'make up' later.

Also, it's not even the wedding of an immediate relative. it's her sister in law, not her own sister.

If you really want to compare the public sector is quite flexible and able to provide term time working for loads of jobs that don't require it, such as programmers, simply to retain staff. I don't know where you were employed, as again 'public sector' is massive and covers everyone from driving instructors to senior civil servants but round here they are some of the better ones to work for. Lower pay and bureaucracy, but otherwise flexibility.

In my NHS department we have to book everything 3 months in advance or we can't go. We are very understaffed. I can only dream of a paid day off for a wedding. I cant even go to my nephews christening because I wasn't given 3 months notice.

I’m surprised she was allowed! I’ve seen support staff be refused days off for their own children getting married (forcing them to quit).

I’ve seen more allowances for teachers (secondary) even to the point they have been paid to go to friends weddings. But that’s the nature of teaching/support roles.

I think she’s gotten a good deal!

I don’t think the rest of the staff will think much to her getting a free extra day off than them. Unpaid is fair.

Well, several posters have said she's lucky to be getting the day off at all.

.........because it is part of her contract that all holidays have to be taken outside of term time. You know that when you work in a school. As a pp has said, you can't put the class into a filing cabinet and pick the work up on another day - she is employed because she is needed to support the children.
Some people find that difficult to imagine that not everyone works in roles that can be 'done at another time'.
Term time jobs are massively sought after where I live. TAs that come out of private daycare think they've won the lottery.

Of course unpaid. Many wouldn’t be given the time off in term time and if you do get time off for something like this, it’s unpaid whether you are in the office/TA or teacher.

I've been given a paid day to attend a graduation, same for a funeral - that has come down to HT's discretion and fortunately she wasn't a twat about it.

Unpaid leave & grateful it was granted at all, in term time! (I'm a Teaching Partner)

No-one gets paid leave at my school unless it's time off in lieu for hours worked over contract.

That's just the way it is. We get a lot of annual leave as it is - albeit not at a time of our personal choosing but we really can't complain, as it covers all the main holidays & the entire Summer!!

Unpaid.

I understand anyone wanting a weekday wedding because of lower costs and some other practicalities possibly, but if you knew one of your relatives was a teacher or in another school role, wouldn't you pick a date in school holidays? Assuming you really wanted them there.

Unpaid. I have no idea how TA’s work and get holiday outside of school holidays though!

I am a teacher and any additional term time leave is unpaid.

In my LA we get 5 days a year classed as special leave. But some colleagues end up using them as childcare days so when something like a wedding comes along they need to take it unpaid.

Someone who works in a school is extremely lucky to have had term-time leave granted, paid or unpaid (this should be unpaid, as it's not a close relative life threatening situation or bereavement).

j should’ve known this really as DM was a teacher for many years and she didn’t take time off during term time (despite having a chronically sick child with asthma). When we were sick we were left in bed and she’d come back at lunchtime (a 30 min drive) to give us lunch and check we were ok, my step grandmother occasionally came over for the day (paid) but apart from that we were on our own. But she did switch from full time to job share which was half the week and helped her in that respect (not always easy to get job share(. She did go to help nurse her uncle dying of cancer but can’t recall if this was in school holidays or was special paid or unpaid leave. Again down to headteachers, some were lovely and wouldn’t have minded giving days off for special reasons others wouldn’t have given it. Actually once when I was a teenager and between schools (changing) in term time) I had to go in with her for a few days and on one occasion helped out with a school trip.

I’m a headteacher and I authorise with pay the vast majority of the time. My staff are grateful and don’t take the piss.

Schools are different to businesses though in that if we often have to pay over the odds to replace the absent member of staff: there’s no way a class can’t have a teacher, and often TAs need replacing for the day too as they work with children with SEN, contribute to lunchtime ratios etc.

from September the budgets are even tighter and granting paid leave will definitely become a thing of the past.

This is why teachers are striking and it’s likely heads will too on the next round. Support your striking schools!

No, and that's why I said my perception may be skewed. Because working in an environment where I should feel grateful to attend a funeral - which has been mentioned more than once in this thread - sounds untenable to me.

I didn't suggest that TAs can manage their own time. But would note ratios are unlikely to be an issue.

The primary issue I'm highlighting is that schools are in the midst of a recruitment crisis. There are endless threads here about it. TAs are often cited as underpaid. If I had a valued yet underpaid staff member in the midst of a recruitment crisis, I would see giving them a paid day off as a low price to pay for retaining them.

But the pay off is massive.

I have a job where no one mentioned not getting paid when I had a month off when my mum died. If I want to take a day for a funeral I am able to manage my own time. However, I did log in from time to time during the month I had off as there’s certain things only I can do. Decisions only I can make. I knew this when accepting the job.

If I was going to a midweek wedding I would take annual leave.

However, as part of managing my own time, I am expected to hit deadlines, which might mean working 70hours a week. Might mean I can’t take time off during the school holidays, or travel at that time.

Every job has the good bits and the bad bits. They have things you can do and things you can’t. Very few jobs allow you to do everything you want, when you want and get paid. And not every job allows you to manage your own time.

Working in environment where you can do these things doesn’t mean you can’t understand that some jobs don’t work like that.

Every job has pros and cons and one of the cons of working in a school is fixed holidays.

I work in a "normal job" and I have the option to take AL, mostly, depending on when colleagues are off and project deadlines, when I want. I have had important events declined before, the most recent was my nieces hen night because it clashed with work but I accept that is sometimes unavoidable and part of the role.

But I dont have the ability to have 10+ weeks leave to cover childcare every year. We have 2 vacancies we have been struggling to fill for nearly a year. Should my employer offer me 10+ weeks leave each year to retain me?

The option to take the leave unpaid is the flex and a fair compromise that gives the opportunity for very important events without making it an expensive issue for the school to provide cover if all staff wanted to use the same flex.

The primary issue I'm highlighting is that schools are in the midst of a recruitment crisis. There are endless threads here about it. TAs are often cited as underpaid. If I had a valued yet underpaid staff member in the midst of a recruitment crisis, I would see giving them a paid day off as a low price to pay for retaining them.
In theory, that is a good idea. But what do you do when staff are absent? Work can't be delayed. You can't tell a class not to come in that day. Someone else, in an already stretched situation is going to have to pick up the pieces. How does that affect them and their job satisfaction? And if an absence takes you over the allowable pupil: staff ratio what do you do? Get supply staff presumably. But that costs a lot too (assuming you can get someone )and, especially if you generously allow your staff to have their extra days off with full pay there may well not be the money in the kitty. That's got to come from somewhere else in your budget - and you don't really have the capacity to increase your income remember. How's it going to affect staff morale if say at the beginning of the year you allow paid leave to someone for a social event but that becomes untenable and you have to say no to others? "Goodwill" can easily be perceived as favouritism if you don't apply it to everyone, and in the current climate a lot of schools are struggling to balance the books.
All public sector organisations have special leave policies and, on the whole they are not bad, but not infinitely generous. I worked my whole life in the public sector and my DH has been in the private sector in a broadly similar position. I would say my Ts and Cs were, overall, better than his. But they didn't run to paying me to go to the weddings of people I'm fairly tenously connected to. There will be allowances for paid leave in lots of circumstances, but not comparatively trivial things like a SIL's wedding. The times I have known people get upset over things like this is when policies are not consistently applied.

Working in environment where you can do these things doesn’t mean you can’t understand that some jobs don’t work like that

I can understand and also disagree.

You said that your perception was skewed. Not that you disagreed.

It’s really not hard to look at it without the perspective of your own job.

The option to take the leave unpaid is the flex and a fair compromise that gives the opportunity for very important events without making it an expensive issue for the school to provide cover if all staff wanted to use the same flex.

Yeah, I do appreciate that, I'm not trying to be intractable. It's the 'and be grateful' attitude that has bothered me through the thread.

OK, well, it sounds like it's all going well in schools anyway so I'm sure it's all fine.