Page 5 | Sister-in-law's wedding. Would you expect time off work to be paid or unpaid?

Pieceofpurplesky · 10/06/2023 19:24

In my old school people were refused leave for funerals if they were not a close relative, so a wedding would have been a huge no. Yet the head wondered why we had a large staff absence ...

Whoopsies · 10/06/2023 19:30

For me (ta) it would be unpaid, but I would be very grateful it was granted!

Blanketpolicy · 10/06/2023 19:33

Why does she think she should be paid by her employer to attend a family wedding?

LadyBird1973 · 10/06/2023 19:41

In general I think there should be give and take. While a TA or teacher isn't technically entitled to the time off, goodwill is important - staff should feel valued and for an important event, some flexibility will save the employer the cost of recruiting new staff when their existing ones feel undervalued and leave!
She shouldn't expect it to be paid, but it would have been a nice gesture. Assuming she's a hard worker and not off sick all the time. Loads of TAs and teachers work above and beyond what is technically their job, so this should go both ways imo.

Kitcaterpillar · 10/06/2023 19:56

Blanketpolicy · 10/06/2023 19:33

Why does she think she should be paid by her employer to attend a family wedding?

Because if you value staff in a low paid profession, where you have no option to pay them more, not treating them like shit is a good way to retain them.

A sister's wedding is a big, important, unmovable event. In a 'normal' job, people would have the ability to take AL. TAs don't have that option. It would seem sensible, amid a school recruitment crisis, to add some flex into the system.

ThinWomansBrain · 10/06/2023 20:00

I wasn't aware it was a thing for people to be given paid leave for their own weddings, I'd expect them to use annual leave - but a guest?🙄

MrsAvocet · 10/06/2023 20:07

LadyBird1973 · 10/06/2023 19:41

In general I think there should be give and take. While a TA or teacher isn't technically entitled to the time off, goodwill is important - staff should feel valued and for an important event, some flexibility will save the employer the cost of recruiting new staff when their existing ones feel undervalued and leave!
She shouldn't expect it to be paid, but it would have been a nice gesture. Assuming she's a hard worker and not off sick all the time. Loads of TAs and teachers work above and beyond what is technically their job, so this should go both ways imo.

But the employer has been flexible - a day off that the employee should be working has been granted.
And yes, lots of TAs and teachers work more than they are paid for but so do very many other employees in both the public and private sector and they don't, as a general rule, get paid to attend family weddings. I can't imagine any employer that I, or any of my immediate family have worked for being that generous. It would be annual leave, or where available, flexi time, that needed to be taken. If most people got an invitation to a wedding after they had used up all their annual leave entitlement they would probably have 3 options - use time accrued or swap a shift if that's possible in their job, take unpaid leave if their employer allows, or not go. Maybe there are some very generous employers around but I think most people would get a fairly short answer if they strolled into their manager's office and said "I've used all the leave I'm contractually entitled to this year but I want to go to the wedding of one of my husband's relatives, so I thought you could just increase my holiday allowance by a day." And unless the OP's friend is planning on working a day somewhere else to make up for it, that's exactly what she is asking for.

timegoingtooquickly · 10/06/2023 20:27

Riapia · 10/06/2023 18:58

Why the hell did she ask?
Should have had a sickness bug two days before. Return to work after 48 hrs.
😉😁😁

Lol no 48 hours off for sickness now! Straight back in (staff and teachers)

It would be unpaid in my school but if a TA has managed to get some extra hours by working lunches etc then they could have it as TOIL

tinytemper66 · 10/06/2023 20:59

saltandvinegardiscos · 10/06/2023 16:15

I've got a friend who works as a TA. She's asked for leave from work for a day, so she can go to her husband's sister's wedding.

She's fuming, because work has said she can take the day, but it will be unpaid.

Personally, I think that's fair. The policy says it's at the discretion of the headteacher.

Anyone else who works in schools or in jobs where you can't just book annual leave, what would you expect in this circumstance?

I am getting 2 days paid leave for my child's wedding. I am a teacher. I did expect 1 day but was delighted with the two. All depends on the school and the head really.

Beezknees · 10/06/2023 21:09

Kitcaterpillar · 10/06/2023 19:56

Because if you value staff in a low paid profession, where you have no option to pay them more, not treating them like shit is a good way to retain them.

A sister's wedding is a big, important, unmovable event. In a 'normal' job, people would have the ability to take AL. TAs don't have that option. It would seem sensible, amid a school recruitment crisis, to add some flex into the system.

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Yeah but people choose what day they get married. I wouldn't get married on a weekday, I would never expect people to use their precious holiday days for my wedding.

Riverlee · 10/06/2023 21:14

saltandvinegardiscos · 10/06/2023 16:15

I've got a friend who works as a TA. She's asked for leave from work for a day, so she can go to her husband's sister's wedding.

She's fuming, because work has said she can take the day, but it will be unpaid.

Personally, I think that's fair. The policy says it's at the discretion of the headteacher.

Anyone else who works in schools or in jobs where you can't just book annual leave, what would you expect in this circumstance?

Take as holiday, or unpaid.

Kitcaterpillar · 10/06/2023 21:20

Beezknees · 10/06/2023 21:09

Yeah but people choose what day they get married. I wouldn't get married on a weekday, I would never expect people to use their precious holiday days for my wedding.

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Yes, that's fine and admirable but noone chooses what day their immediate family gets married on.

Chatterboxy · 10/06/2023 21:44

Why on earth would she think it would be paid time off! 🙄🤷‍♀️

Lostmum2407 · 10/06/2023 22:10

I wouldn’t have even expected to be allowed to have the day off at all. It’s very reasonable not to be paid to have time off for this.

MrsAvocet · 10/06/2023 22:19

A sister's wedding is a big, important, unmovable event. In a 'normal' job, people would have the ability to take AL. TAs don't have that option. It would seem sensible, amid a school recruitment crisis, to add some flex into the system.
People in "normal" jobs may be able to take annual leave for events like this but they don't have 13 weeks when they are not required to be in work. Virtually every TA I know has been attracted to their job in a large part because it is term time only working. The downside of that of course is that stuff like this happens. You can't opt for a job with term time only working and then expect to be treated like people with "normal" jobs when it suits you.
If you look at comparable jobs in other public services - health care assistants, carers, civil service admin assistants etc - they may have more flexibility when they take their leave but they probably only get 25/27 or so days a year and they almost certainly wouldn't be given another paid day to attend a wedding if they'd used them all. And they also often go above and beyond the call of duty and are jobs with recruitment and retention issues. Of course it would be nice to be able to be that flexible but imagine if every public servant took additional paid leave every time they had a family event - who'd fund that and how would services run? Why should this TA get special treatment? She hasn't been denied the opportunity to attend the wedding (and its her SIL, not her sister so not even a relative) she's just not going to be paid, which is probably what would happen in most jobs anyway.
Every job has its pros and cons and you can't have your cake and eat it - fixed working patterns and flexible leave arrangements are mutually exclusive surely?

Newname211 · 10/06/2023 22:25

ThinWomansBrain · 10/06/2023 20:00

I wasn't aware it was a thing for people to be given paid leave for their own weddings, I'd expect them to use annual leave - but a guest?🙄

Yes, but those who work in schools don’t have the ability to book annual leave. Obviously if they had holiday entitlement they would use that, but it isn’t an option.

MistressIggi · 10/06/2023 22:25

Riverlee · 10/06/2023 21:14

Take as holiday, or unpaid.

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She cannot take it as holiday, due to the whole being in a school thing!
I think fine to give it unpaid, just so long as they don't expect any extra unpaid overtime etc as I doubt she'll be as keen to do it as she might have been before.

Hyppogriff · 10/06/2023 22:26

Haha unpaid obvs

MistressIggi · 10/06/2023 22:31

Sierra26 · 10/06/2023 18:36

From annual leave allowance = paid
If not from annual leave allowance = discretionary unpaid

Do posters honestly not see the problem here..?

To those saying how grateful she should be to be allowed to go at all, we can't keep TAs at my school, if you refused to let them attend a close family wedding I think they'd just hand their notice in.

Riverlee · 10/06/2023 22:34

No one is saying she can’t go, just that she shouldn’t be expected to be paid for that day.

JudgeJ · 10/06/2023 22:37

CurlyTandtheTangles · 10/06/2023 16:54

Currently leadership teams in schools need to think carefully saying a complete no to an adhoc day off (unpaid) for an important event if it is a decent, reliable, hard working members of staff.

Because these staff are very much valued. Not easy to replace, and costly to replace if they think "fuck it... I'll start looking for a job elsewhere"

If they start making decisions based on 'decent, reliable, hard-working' staff then they are laying themselves open to accusations of favouritism. They need to have a firm policy and stick to it.

UsingChangeofName · 10/06/2023 22:38

MrsAvocet · 10/06/2023 22:19

A sister's wedding is a big, important, unmovable event. In a 'normal' job, people would have the ability to take AL. TAs don't have that option. It would seem sensible, amid a school recruitment crisis, to add some flex into the system.
People in "normal" jobs may be able to take annual leave for events like this but they don't have 13 weeks when they are not required to be in work. Virtually every TA I know has been attracted to their job in a large part because it is term time only working. The downside of that of course is that stuff like this happens. You can't opt for a job with term time only working and then expect to be treated like people with "normal" jobs when it suits you.
If you look at comparable jobs in other public services - health care assistants, carers, civil service admin assistants etc - they may have more flexibility when they take their leave but they probably only get 25/27 or so days a year and they almost certainly wouldn't be given another paid day to attend a wedding if they'd used them all. And they also often go above and beyond the call of duty and are jobs with recruitment and retention issues. Of course it would be nice to be able to be that flexible but imagine if every public servant took additional paid leave every time they had a family event - who'd fund that and how would services run? Why should this TA get special treatment? She hasn't been denied the opportunity to attend the wedding (and its her SIL, not her sister so not even a relative) she's just not going to be paid, which is probably what would happen in most jobs anyway.
Every job has its pros and cons and you can't have your cake and eat it - fixed working patterns and flexible leave arrangements are mutually exclusive surely?

This.

Perhaps she should be looking at why the SiL has chosen to get married on a day she might not have been able to attend........
Before booking anything for our wedding, we checked with all the important people.

elodiedie · 10/06/2023 22:39

If leave isn’t allowed for important events then you just get people calling in sick, which is worse.

Alwayswonderedwhy · 10/06/2023 22:40

She's very lucky to get the time off. I'd be grateful and accept it will be unpaid.

Kitcaterpillar · 10/06/2023 22:44

MrsAvocet · 10/06/2023 22:19

A sister's wedding is a big, important, unmovable event. In a 'normal' job, people would have the ability to take AL. TAs don't have that option. It would seem sensible, amid a school recruitment crisis, to add some flex into the system.
People in "normal" jobs may be able to take annual leave for events like this but they don't have 13 weeks when they are not required to be in work. Virtually every TA I know has been attracted to their job in a large part because it is term time only working. The downside of that of course is that stuff like this happens. You can't opt for a job with term time only working and then expect to be treated like people with "normal" jobs when it suits you.
If you look at comparable jobs in other public services - health care assistants, carers, civil service admin assistants etc - they may have more flexibility when they take their leave but they probably only get 25/27 or so days a year and they almost certainly wouldn't be given another paid day to attend a wedding if they'd used them all. And they also often go above and beyond the call of duty and are jobs with recruitment and retention issues. Of course it would be nice to be able to be that flexible but imagine if every public servant took additional paid leave every time they had a family event - who'd fund that and how would services run? Why should this TA get special treatment? She hasn't been denied the opportunity to attend the wedding (and its her SIL, not her sister so not even a relative) she's just not going to be paid, which is probably what would happen in most jobs anyway.
Every job has its pros and cons and you can't have your cake and eat it - fixed working patterns and flexible leave arrangements are mutually exclusive surely?

I mean... I'm not a TA and I work in a private sector job where everyone is treated like an adult and manages their own time so maybe my perception is skewed. BUT if I was running a school and I had a valued workforce, I would be letting people have days off for weddings and funerals because recruitment is expensive and retention and goodwill is important 🤷🏼‍♀️

All this thread really confirms to me is I'll never return to the public sector.