To think this doctors note is ridiculous

[Bluesjies]

Okay this employer has always been a bit lazy but we’ve just had to put up with it.
She does around half the work of other colleagues but we’ve never been able to do anything about it as she does just enough to avoid her being sacked.

Anyway we allocated her a few tasks to do which include several in person meetings (can’t be virtual on this occasion for various reasons).
We knew she didn’t like attending meetings as she prefers just working from home so wondered if she’d say she was sick on the day or say she was not well enough to not work from home.
We can’t avoid attending meetings forever. She’s more than competent when she is in them. I think it’s just she lives an hour from the meeting place and she doesn’t like the commute, getting up early etc.
We do try to have teams meetings where we can but it’s not always possible.

Anyway the meeting on Monday has been arranged and she informed me she could not attend as she was having pain and struggling to walk 🙄”. I replied the meeting isn’t for four days. Will the pain be better then? She didn’t reply but then a couple days later submitted a doctors note saying she needs to work from home until her maternity leave (in 4 months) due to pelvic pain.
There’s not much we can do here really if there’s a doctors note. Or so I thought.

I happened to see her walking perfectly well down a road near her home today so I do have evidence she’s more than able to mobilise.

AIBU to think her note is just nonesense and challenge her on her perfect walking ability? I don’t know why these GP’s write these notes out when it’s not the truth.

Or am I best to silently seeth and get on with it.

I’m disabled. Diagnosed, get some benefits based on it, have letters/medications etc. I use a walking stick most of the time. Sometimes… I don’t! When I walk across the classroom to grab something, when I walk to the loo at work, if I need to carry things to my car… it doesn’t mean it’s not painful but I can manage it to make something else quicker or easy. Some really ableist assumptions on this thread. Seeing someone walk normally doesn’t mean they aren’t in pain.

I know people have little faith in GPs these days but it's not right to cast aspersions on their integrity and professionality OP.

I've had SPD when I was pregnant and it wasn't funny, although it didn't stop me working as it was mild, and I only had a 10 minute drive to work.

Also being able to walk down the road has no bearing on whether you can manage a one hour commute. As an example, I pulled a muscle in my bottom a few months ago. I could still run, walk and swim, but I struggled to sit in the car. If you google it, you will find it is a common problem. I could manage 10 minutes here and there, but an hour in the car (and then back at the end of the day) would have been very painful and I wasn't even pregnant to add to the mix.

I also agree that if someone is rubbish at their job, you can get rid of them, even in the public sector. The law is no different, you just need the evidence. So draw it together. But you have missed the boat now as she is pregnant and it will seem just a little too convenient.

Poor managers get poor employees...

....and lose the good ones.

I hope you realize by law you are putting YOURSELF in a position to be fired and your company sued. As a manager you should have the training to know this. I say this as a member of management for 26 years. This is totally going to be picked up by the daily mail so if o were you I would start hunting for a job asap

Also, if most meetings can be hybrid, so can this one.

I attended a face to face meeting yesterday. We were asked to go in for it, but it could have been done remotely. It was just better face to face.

Unfortunately, whilst it's probably obvious she's making it up, you won't be able to prove it and you'll be opening yourself and the firm up to all sorts of issues if you so much as raise it.

I would talk to HR about what you can do when she returns from maternity. Ie, change contracts to stipulate how many in person meetings she needs to attend per month.

Would you not join the dots if she didn't have medical leave before she was pregnant? She could easily have symphysis pubis dysfunction (SPD) which is not uncommon in pregnancy, and can make walking extremely painful.

A good manager would wind their neck in, go with what the doctor says and support her, not come onto a website and bitch about an employee.

@Bluesjies - totally the wrong forum to vent about employees who may be swinging the lead. You could witness and video said employee cartwheeling and undertaking a trapeze act whilst signed off for mobility issues and still have your arse handed to you

I had pelvic pain in pregnancy, sometimes it was ok others I couldn’t walk.
It still flares up now and I’m 3 yrs post partum.

Also, I wouldn’t want to put a pregnant person at risk of catching infectious disease at an in person meeting when it can be done on teams.
Are the meetings masked and or in well ventilated rooms? When pregnant you are immunosuppressed.
There has been a rise in maternal and foetal death since covid…causation or correlation I don’t know…but I wouldn’t risk it as a manager responsible for people if not necessary.

Yes I deal with them all the time in my role. That’s why there are policies and procedures in place. It sounds like these haven’t been followed

She's an employee not employer OP. God knows how you got your job as a manager but you should ask your employers for some additional training.

Ultimately there could be any additional issues going on behind the scenes. Your job as her manager is to make her feel supported in returning to her role for her contracted hours.

If she witnessed a pregnant employee with pelvic pain cartwheeling and doing a trapeze act I think people would be more concerned for the baby tbh 😁

I've seen your type of 'management' way too often. Women usually. Promoted way way beyond their level of competence. The kind who will diss an employee over childcare issues while she has a nanny for her 5 kids. Or the one who rants on about how supportive she is of women while refusing one flexible working because of alleged poor performance. Or the one who informed me that only people who are terminally ill should receive sickness pay!!

If she is fulfilling the PIP then you have no reason to complain about her performance. Sounds like your own performance should be under the spotlight, because you are not managing well.

I do know, there are GPs who hand out sick notes like Smarties. A lot of the time, particularly now, the GP hasn't even seen the patient. There are plenty of malingerers, but as this colleague doesn't have a history of sick leave then I think you are being unduly harsh. If this is your attitude to her, the poor woman probably doesn't want to be anywhere near you. It sounds like you deliberately set her up to fail with the tasks you allocated to her.

A referral to OH would probably be sensible, although I don't rate much of their advice either. IME they still conduct consultations by phone, ever since Covid. They basically reproduce whatever the employee has told them. One advised me once that an alcoholic employee should be randomly breath tested... damn sure I won't be doing that!!

You know having pelvic pain and not being able to travel an hr in a car and sit through meetings doesn't mean you are crippled and can't drive or walk for short periods. Why would you assume she can't walk around town fine?

You're talking shite. You can have horrendous pelvic pain in pregnancy and still be able to walk unaided it's just painful and you shouldnt be expected to be sitting in pain for a job. The one hour travel time would also be horrendously painful so it's more than reasonable for her to say she can only work from home. You do honestly sound like bullies. I also think if she said she couldn't go to the meeting due to pain and you asked her when the pain would be over then you were badgering her- she said no and gave a reason. Why can't someone who isn't in permanent pain go to the meetings in person or do you just want to put her in her place?

You may also want to consider the following:

Said woman will be able to easily identify who you are if she sees this and could take you to the ringers.
she’s been signed off coming into office, is pregnant, and at no point have you offered support from occupational health etc.
you sound petty and bitter.

It sounds like you have given this task in order to piss her off really as you already know she dislikes travelling into the office. In any event, it is not worth the bother. She may well be exaggerating but there is no way you can or even should try to prove this.

I don’t think it's the genuine thread. Lots of people have warned OP of breaching confidential information here, surely any normal manager would have asked the thread to be taken down.

Ugh I can’t stand managers and management teams who are like this! Just because you saw her “walking down the road perfectly fine” does not indicate that individual is actually fine!

you should be more concerned about her wellbeing, asking if there’s anything you can possibly put in place to make the job more comfortable for her, offer her to just come in for part of the meeting or I assume someone could record or minute take to be able to send over to her to read.

when I was working during my second pregnancy I also experienced pelvic pain (excruciating) however, the doctor&midwife advised me to do light exercise and it was important to keep moving.. I was also advised to take painkillers and relax in the bath etc! As the pregnancy went on it got worse to the point I nearly ended up needing crutches (luckily I was being induced so went into hospital and managed to keep on going until then)

i was more then capable to walk to the shop down the road, however getting back, sitting down (which I assume you’d be doing in your meetings?) that’s when the pain hits and it honestly felt like my bone was going to snap! I’m not even over exaggerating, if someone else on here has suffered pelvic pain severely they will understand, even widening my legs was awful, my husband had to help me get out of bed before going into hospital.

if she wasn’t pregnant then id say possibly but she might not want to commute etc, however you should never judge a book by it’s cover, just because someone may appear perfectly fine to yourself doesn’t mean that’s the truth..

my advice would be to not challenge her, she’s pregnant, the body changes and work doesn’t become as easy! I don’t know why would wouldn’t want to offer more support tbh? I would send a message and say that your there for her if she needs anything and to let you know how she gets on..

She is pregnant ffs, be kind and give her space to manage her symptoms. Assigning her in person meetings just to test her is nasty. Working whilst pregnant is exhausting enough without bullying management

Agree wholeheartedly with your reply. I'm too unwell at the moment to type out a long reply but the OP sounds very judgemental about a pregnant woman in acute pain. My friend could hardly walk when she had PGP during both of her pregnancies

So basically
”I’m an inadequate manager who doesn’t performance-manage my employees, but instead pay them for chronic underperformance and then whinge about it online to maximise my lack of professionalism, and yet I’m surprised I haven’t created a culture of contribution and professionalism”

You can't challenge her, are you trying to lose your job?

She has a Dr's note, there's nothing you can do whether she's faking it or not.

And as a previous poster said, just because you've seen her walk a short distance doesn't mean she's fit to come into work. How do you know what her pain levels are?

You are a very unprofessional sounding manager in my opinion.

@AlfietheSchnauzer yes I am. OP saw this woman walk down the street once, doesn’t mean she’s faking an illness at all. Taking to mumsnet to slag off an employee is unprofessional. She sounds like a dick and so do you.

Bluesjies · Today 13:16

We all think she needs to be on a performance management plan.

It's clear from your posts that she is not the only one.