(Poll) If a new disease with a similar fatality rate to pre-vaccination COVID appeared again…

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And the government started to issue instructions about rules, hand washing, masks, social distancing, not meeting up with people, and the like, similarly to what happened in 2020-21….

What would your response be?

A: I would follow the rules more strictly than I did last time (because WFH has made it easier OR because the deaths from COVID make me feel we should have been stricter last time).

B: I would follow the rules about as strictly as I did last time, for the most part.

C: I would follow some rules or follow most rules to an extent, but would be significantly less “strict” about this than I was during COVID.

D: I would be much, much less strict or would completely ignore most rules/instructions, insofaras I was able to disregard them.

I’m just trying to work out whether the COVID experience and aftermath has shifted the Overton window and made people more open to the idea of following rules etc. to contain infectious diseases, OR alternatively whether people have grown a bit more blasé about diseases, disillusioned about governments or concerned about negative aftermaths of pandemic control measures.

For what it’s worth, I’d be a C (although I was never very strict first time round either to be honest).

And MNHQ, can we please get a proper poll selection option that goes beyond YABU/YANBU options?

Part of the problem is that politicians and governments don't deal in nuance, they want attention-grabbing headlines and media soundbites. Science doesn't work in this way. Leaving aside some of the outrageous forecasting that went on, in general scientists gave the best possible advice based on the evidence available at the time; when the evidence evolved or shifted, so the advice changed. Politicians like to adopt a stance and then double-down on it when questioned, which is the exact opposite of how scientific discovery works.

So I would still be listening to scientific advice in the event of another pandemic, I would just try to get it straight from the horse's mouth rather than filtered through politicians who I do not trust and may – as we have since seen – have an agenda of their own.

There were changes though but always with accusation of ‘u turn’ from media and public. This was seen to be a failing.

I agree science evolves etc though

Also as even Whitty said his contribution was within remit but the decisions made were outside of it and political

Although the omicron line wasn’t great and cost a fair whack in the end

B

B assuming the rules & risks were similar to last time.

There were changes though but always with accusation of ‘u turn’ from media and public. This was seen to be a failing.

You're right. What the politicians should have said early on is something along the lines of 'we still don't know exactly what we're dealing with here, so the scientific advice is constantly changing and evolving and our policies may have to change along with it'. But when has a politician ever said something like that?!!

D

D without doubt.

B. I followed the sensible rules, handwashing and sanitising, keeping a sensible distance from people, wearing a mask in confined spaces. We are lucky and have a large garden so lock down didn't effect us too much, but I could hear people out chatting on the common land behind us (obviously disobeying the rules but to my mind not doing anything dangerous), I think some of the rules on going out weren't necessary if you were following the common sense stuff. I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't visit someone dying in hospital.

It also depends if you were/would be at high risk or if members of your family were/would be at high risk. We were at moderately high risk from Covid for age and health issues. Another disease might be more dangerous for young children, which would change things a lot.

@StormShadow

I don’t think I said others were wrong did I? I don’t think it’s necessarily about the right or wrong thing to do, it’s more about what’s most likely to be the best course of action.

In a pandemic it’s impossible to see into the future and know how things will pan out. Once you have hindsight then that can be used to plan better for a future pandemic.

Challenging is important because that’s needed for future planning and for better outcomes.

Yes, I agree. Pointless locking down otherwise healthy/fit people for whom covid was unlikely to kill or hospitalise them. ALL resources should be to protect those identified as particularly vulnerable either due to age or medical conditions. Provide "safe" transport to "safe" medical/health settings as required, arrange delivery of food and other shopping with "socially distanced" safe handovers. Spread out hospital patients and care home residents (we can afford to requisition hotels for asylum seekers, so can afford to do so for the vulnerable so enable social distancing between staff and patients/residents etc. Yes, it would be labour intensive and costly, but nowhere near as costly as shutting down the economy for months and having to pay virtually everyone furlough/grants/loans not to work!

Is that not what you meant in the first post I replied to when you said you thought it was wrong to think a certain way?

B

I agree with @gogohmm too

The likes of Uni students (most of whom are low risk due to being fit and healthy) should have minimal, if any, restrictions. Yes, there was a lot of covid spread in Autumn 2020 when students went to Unis after the Summer break, but most of that was due to their living conditions, i.e. typically 8-14 students in uni accommodation sharing bathrooms and a communal kitchen/living area. Yes, some would have caught covid during partying etc., but it was almost inevitable they'd catch it when you're putting groups of 8-14 people from random places in the country into small flats where they have to live together, so even without partying, the covid numbers would have shot up anyway on campuses!

Common sense would have dictated that they should have been told to stay at home and not spread the virus, especially seeing as most had no reason to actually be at university due to most (for some all) of their lectures, seminars, tutorials etc being online for the year!

If it happens again, we need to concentrate resources on protecting the vulnerable and letting the young/fit and/or healthy just get on with life with minimal restrictions.

D, was D before the only lovkdown even vaguely justifiable was March april 2020, by the summer they knew outside was virtually no risk, the met up because they knew outside parties were not a risk, they are not brave enough to risk their own lives.
Research is showing that there is no real relationship between strictness of lockdown and death rates, in USA there is little difference between states regardless of rules. in Europe the countries that had few rules but encouraged people being sensible had equally good outcomes long term Sweden did very well

lockdown costs are the biggest reason for world wide rises in cost of living as there is so much debt for needless restrictions and stopping people working and then spending money,

I've thought about this as very sadly my grandma died in late 2021. I missed out on seeing her lots over lockdowns. So I've thought I only had covid once and it was just after a trip to London so I didn't see any family. All of the other times I didn't have it and could have seen her without passing it on, but obvs didn't know that.

Just like I wouldn't know if I had it or not in future. I'm also working in the basis that all of my actions, wfh, masks, limited social contact lead to me not getting it. But if I'd been less cautious I might have got it earlier before my vaccines and been more unwell.
Thefore I think probably b I'd do the same, but as I did last time making risk assessments. So I did see family in the garden etc. As I have mh issues.

I think it's really easy to act now like it was no big deal but how bad would it have been if we'd all done nothing? Especially when the strains were really more serious.

Yeah but then they wouldn't have been paying fat rents to landlords and unis, and we couldn't have that.

I do think the lack of support for the ECV was a big issue.

We were shielding due to OH having cancer, but still had to go to hospitals for blood tests/treatments, etc., often in busy/crowded waiting rooms, still had to go to the hospital pharmacy and wait in a crowded waiting area for his chemotherapy drugs, etc.

Hospitals were strange, as they had huge waiting areas cordoned off with tape etc., but then tiny/crowded waiting areas outside the consulting rooms. Would have made more sense to spread out those waiting in the bigger waiting rooms so they're be more socially distanced.

B, but only because I was totally observant of the rules last time. If I hadn't, it would have been A.

However, I'm prepared to concede that I may be biassed. I lost my partner and 2 friends who had Covid at the very beginning and who all had long Covid, and died of thrombosis related things a few months later.

Their deaths won't appear in the stats, because they didn't have Covid mentioned on their death certificates, they were all previously fit and well, and under 60.

My SIL and niece have both just had Covid for the second time, despite being vaccinated. SIL is still quite unwell.

C/D depending on what it was really

B/D I.e I ignored what it was possible to the first time and would do so again. Covid times were nuts, thank god it's over hopefully never to be repeated.

Between C&D some of the rules (I’m in Scotland) were so stupid I couldn’t sit with my sister in her front room just me and her but we could go and sit in a pub 🙄

the elderly and vulnerable should always be protected but never at the cost of locking away all the fit and healthy people that to me was bonkers

I will add I had two vaccines and will not be having anymore, there are currently investigations into one of them (not Pfizer can’t remember which) due to heart problems it has caused, I work in healthcare and a few of our patients suddenly had heart issues following vaccination and I know of 2 people in my friends circle who are experiencing issues getting pregnant confidence? Perhaps

These replies make it imperative that the WHO is not given powers over pandemic control in the future.

@StormShadow

I said I don’t think it’s right to base criticism about Covid measures purely on how inept our UK government have been. There’s a bigger picture. I think that was my point.