AIBU to ask if you believe in God - particularly if you didn't previously, and what that's like

[Pinesinthedunes]

Just as the title says really. I don't believe in God. I'm very curious about those who do - particularly those who didn't previously. How did your belief develop? How do you conceptualise God? Can it be a choice? I have a lot of admiration and curiosity for anyone who is able to sustain a sincere faith in Western culture. How important is having a community around you to strengthening your faith? Thank you in advance for any thoughts on this you would be happy to share

I was raised in the Church of England, so in that sense, I always had a framework for believing. And my lovely grandparents used to take me to church, and they were special to me. But, equally, my dad is a very outspoken and confirmed atheist, and always had lots of opportunities not to believe.

For me, belief is a way of acknowledging that there is something to be grateful for in the world. That's God.

i believe in my own way .

I've made a conscious choice to believe after spending a few years telling myself I was an atheist. I just wanted to go back to church one day and just kind of went with it. I've since made some lovely friends, joined the choir and am getting out and about. My life is very much happier. I don't entertain doubtful thoughts anymore because they don't achieve anything. I can understand how people lose their faith or fail to believe in God because it does seem like a strange thing to do and it's not like supernatural experiences grow on trees. I don't think I've even ever had one tbh. I just made a decision to believe because I want to and the teachings make sense to me. Something happened 2000 years ago, enough to make people give their lives up for it.

I believe God exists but I don't think he's completely pure and without any what humans would consider 'bad'

Free will doesn't make sense to me. Yes we are supposedly given free will to make our own decisions, so lots of bad stuff that's happening is other humans bringing it onto other humans

Here's the thing though - God is all knowing so knew that before we were even created. Why create something that can cause such devastation and destruction to not only itself, but those of its own kind too?

Free will is suppose to mean Jim age 59 can rape his niece of age 8, Sally, and that's awful to God but hey, free Will! God would've known he would've committed that act, yet still he made Jim anyway and let him hurt precious age 8 Sally

The Jewish answer to this is very clear and one of the very first things ever taught - We aren't God, so therefore we cannot come close to knowing God and the true meaning of all works and things. We do not have that mental capacity as humans.

Whereas I find Christians like to beat around the bush and don't seem to admit they don't know

I don't understand prayer, either. It makes no sense. What is it then? You didn't pray so I didn't give it to you? Almost like 'well you didn't ask, even if I know how many hairs on your head, and knew your hearts desires, so fuck you'

See also, prayers being answered. Why is it when the result is good, prayers have been answered and 'God is good'? Why is mum A attending her baby's funeral and Mum B gets to praise the power of prayer for saving her Baby with the exact same problem, in this specific scenario

Did she not pray beg enough for her baby's life then?

I'm more spiritual than religious. I was an atheist after catholic high school because it was so sexist and homophobic.

Nowadays, I'm pretty certain there is a force of some sort, or fate with free will. Some sort of plan. An afterlife.

I find it comforting and it makes sense to me. I don't believe it makes me a stupid person and I'm otherwise very logical.

It's just a faith that things are going to plan. I've had various experiences I don't want to go into, though I'm confident.

My mum and extended family are still very catholic, though a lot more liberal nowadays. I go to mass once in a while and like the symbolism and tradition.

I was an avowed atheist until roughly 33. For me the realisation that changed everything was thinking about the First Cause of everything and how you could postulate everything in existence from that First Cause. Since then I've been lucky enough to have had some excellent training in reason, logic and Philosophy and have more certainty in what is termed God by some, than I would ever have expected.

Praying isn't supposed to be about asking for favours, fortune, good luck etc. it's supposed to be about strengthening your relationship with God. I don't pray that my autistic ds has an easy day, I pray that he has the strength to deal with whatever the day throws at him.

Many people struggle with the concept of free will. We weren't created to be Sims though. Terrible things can happen, but we're reminded that this life is temporary and we can go on to experience a better existence after we die.

@stbrandonsboat Well, I would agree there if I was more inclined to pray. That makes perfect sense to me! But you have to admit, so so many Christian's and even just believers in God generally will praise God for answering his prayers and the power of prayer etc etc when someone recovers or turns out fine, that's got nothing to do with asking for strength

Yes, I get your point of this life being temporary. But why, if you love someone so much, would you let them suffer when you knew full well, down to the last detail, what type of life they'd live? In fact, why create something in the first place that's capable of such horrors? Yes there's free will but again, why design something that can go so terribly wrong? God had the power to design us so we couldn't do the most hideous of things I am thinking of that's happened, yet he chose to make us that way anyway, at the expense of innocent people(s) suffering in this life

Which also brings me back to Adam and Eve. God was really disappointed and angry enough to banish them from paradise. Life was tough after that - But they were his first people, he's benevolent, all knowing and seeing, he knew how this would play out before they came to be. So why is he surprised at them when he made them with the capabilities to do that, disobedience, greed, etc etc

@Pinesinthedunes What would it take for you to believe in God?

If there is a 'God' (or First Cause) , then compared to our puny little existences God must be immeasurably vast. And must have infinite aspects. The many organised religions, belief systems, and wisdom traditions of the world are just focused on different of the same concept.

Different aspects.

Some Christians will thank God for things turning out well for them, but they have no way of knowing that God has done this for them. None of us know one way or another. They are making assumptions and nobody should do that. You can be thankful in general though.

@stbrandonsboat yes but not just some, loads of Christian's and people who generally believe in God, do indeed explicitly thank Him for things. Hence the phrase 'God is good' and also a new one from younger Christian's 'Only God!' In response to something like a prem baby surviving

Demonstrates a certain degree of spiritual laziness tbh. God isn't some sort of pocket magician to be wheeled out when we want or need something. Crawl and toady up to Him and He will look favourably upon us. If people want to do that then that's up to them, but I've seen it establish a pocket magician mindset in individuals so...

@noyoucanthavethelastbiscuit but what's wrong with thanking God if things go the way you hoped?

If things don't go the way you hoped/prayed for and you're a believer, the way I see it is that it wasn't in God's plan.

My feelings are very similar to OpenDoors72

As I watched DM die I wished I had her faith. She wished for the end, unwavering in her belief that she'd get to see my dad and brother, who died in his teens. It brought me comfort to see that she wasn't scared but I can't understand faith, especially devotion to a single man-made religion.
I'm atheist and short of God knocking at the door I always will be. I've had two near death experiences, had to be resuscitated and been on life support twice. There was nothing, no conscious passing of time. I fell asleep and woke up days later. The late Christopher Hitchens explains my feelings far more succinctly than I ever could.

Catholic school turned me into an atheist.
But once I was removed from the influence of that I came to recognise a feeling there was something bigger. I see God/the divine as everything, good and bad - no separation from anything. Everything is an emanation of the divine.

”Gods” are aspects of these emanations, reflections, ways for humans to conceptualise the ineffable. The divine isn’t a personal god it just is.

Christian Orthodoxy believes that God can't be conceptualised or understood. He just is. We can only understand God through Christ and by following His teachings.

I have lots of animals - horses, dogs, cats, goats, chickens and a rooster. I watch them live their lives and I sadly watch them die when their lives are over. They don't have any concept of an afterlife, they don't need to believe in a creator or a greater being or a universal spirit. They live the best lives they can and then they die. I don't aspire to be any different.

Sorry , realise I didn’t answer the second part of the question of What’s that like?

it is comforting, a feeling of oneness with everything, Blake probably sums it up best

Auguries of Innocence
BY WILLIAM BLAKE
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
A Robin Red breast in a Cage
Puts all Heaven in a Rage
A Dove house filld with Doves & Pigeons
Shudders Hell thr' all its regions
A dog starvd at his Masters Gate
Predicts the ruin of the State
A Horse misusd upon the Road
Calls to Heaven for Human blood
Each outcry of the hunted Hare
A fibre from the Brain does tear
A Skylark wounded in the wing
A Cherubim does cease to sing
The Game Cock clipd & armd for fight
Does the Rising Sun affright
Every Wolfs & Lions howl
Raises from Hell a Human Soul
The wild deer, wandring here & there
Keeps the Human Soul from Care
The Lamb misusd breeds Public Strife
And yet forgives the Butchers knife
The Bat that flits at close of Eve
Has left the Brain that wont Believe
The Owl that calls upon the Night
Speaks the Unbelievers fright
He who shall hurt the little Wren
Shall never be belovd by Men
He who the Ox to wrath has movd
Shall never be by Woman lovd
The wanton Boy that kills the Fly
Shall feel the Spiders enmity
He who torments the Chafers Sprite
Weaves a Bower in endless Night
The Catterpiller on the Leaf
Repeats to thee thy Mothers grief
Kill not the Moth nor Butterfly
For the Last Judgment draweth nigh
He who shall train the Horse to War
Shall never pass the Polar Bar
The Beggars Dog & Widows Cat
Feed them & thou wilt grow fat
The Gnat that sings his Summers Song
Poison gets from Slanders tongue
The poison of the Snake & Newt
Is the sweat of Envys Foot
The poison of the Honey Bee
Is the Artists Jealousy
The Princes Robes & Beggars Rags
Are Toadstools on the Misers Bags
A Truth thats told with bad intent
Beats all the Lies you can invent
It is right it should be so
Man was made for Joy & Woe
And when this we rightly know
Thro the World we safely go
Joy & Woe are woven fine
A Clothing for the soul divine
Under every grief & pine
Runs a joy with silken twine
The Babe is more than swadling Bands
Throughout all these Human Lands
Tools were made & Born were hands
Every Farmer Understands
Every Tear from Every Eye
Becomes a Babe in Eternity
This is caught by Females bright
And returnd to its own delight
The Bleat the Bark Bellow & Roar
Are Waves that Beat on Heavens Shore
The Babe that weeps the Rod beneath
Writes Revenge in realms of Death
The Beggars Rags fluttering in Air
Does to Rags the Heavens tear
The Soldier armd with Sword & Gun
Palsied strikes the Summers Sun
The poor Mans Farthing is worth more
Than all the Gold on Africs Shore
One Mite wrung from the Labrers hands
Shall buy & sell the Misers Lands
Or if protected from on high
Does that whole Nation sell & buy
He who mocks the Infants Faith
Shall be mockd in Age & Death
He who shall teach the Child to Doubt
The rotting Grave shall neer get out
He who respects the Infants faith
Triumphs over Hell & Death
The Childs Toys & the Old Mans Reasons
Are the Fruits of the Two seasons
The Questioner who sits so sly
Shall never know how to Reply
He who replies to words of Doubt
Doth put the Light of Knowledge out
The Strongest Poison ever known
Came from Caesars Laurel Crown
Nought can Deform the Human Race
Like to the Armours iron brace
When Gold & Gems adorn the Plow
To peaceful Arts shall Envy Bow
A Riddle or the Crickets Cry
Is to Doubt a fit Reply
The Emmets Inch & Eagles Mile
Make Lame Philosophy to smile
He who Doubts from what he sees
Will neer Believe do what you Please
If the Sun & Moon should Doubt
Theyd immediately Go out
To be in a Passion you Good may Do
But no Good if a Passion is in you
The Whore & Gambler by the State
Licencd build that Nations Fate
The Harlots cry from Street to Street
Shall weave Old Englands winding Sheet
The Winners Shout the Losers Curse
Dance before dead Englands Hearse
Every Night & every Morn
Some to Misery are Born
Every Morn and every Night
Some are Born to sweet delight
Some are Born to sweet delight
Some are Born to Endless Night
We are led to Believe a Lie
When we see not Thro the Eye
Which was Born in a Night to perish in a Night
When the Soul Slept in Beams of Light
God Appears & God is Light
To those poor Souls who dwell in Night
But does a Human Form Display
To those who Dwell in Realms of day

I wasn’t raised in the church. My mum is pretty anti religion! I became a Christian as an adult and I absolutely believe in God. I know that he’s real in the same way I know other things are real, even if I can’t see them or fully understand them. I do find church helpful. I think it’s hard being a Christian without a community (there’s even a passage in the bible that references it not being a good thing). It’s not always easy and I wrestle with issues of faith a lot (I was hugely challenged by issues around church and the LGBT community) but my faith adds a lot to my life.

Did she not pray beg enough for her baby's life then?

That is exactly what religions tell you, @noyoucanthavethelastbiscuit. Or didn't make enough of the right sacrifices / pilgrimages / magical signs. These Supreme Beings are very like the kings & emperors of the times they came from: all-powerful, capriciously demanding, possessive, temperamental, must be approached in a certain way.