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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

“Men have to fight in wars and do the protecting and heavy lifting”

117 replies

DogEar · 05/06/2023 17:35

So says a male colleague as he monologues about female privilege.
I’m rather sick of it. I’ve moved offices over this but can still hear him droning on about women - the lazy entitled part of humanity.

I’ve argued - men fight in wars, do the protecting, do the heavy lifting, because this is the patriarchy - this is literally what has been created by men. He argues back harder, so I, and others in the office, have given up, yet he still drones on.

Apparently women can do nothing without men. Totally ignoring the many women who have had their inventions and discoveries stolen by men and not had any credit, including writers, composers, artists, scientists, astronomers, etc.

I recently read a convincing theory that Einstein’s work was largely carried out by his first wife, Mileva Einstein-Maric, who was his intellectual superior. I guess this is something we’ll never know, but at the very least she supported his work heavily, but very few know her name or her involvement in Einstein’s work.

If women need protecting it’s from men. If we go to war it’s men behind it (or a tiny number of women within a patriarchal society). Heavy lifting? If it’s so heavy I can’t lift it I can involve a friend, job sorted.

YABU - women owe men a debt of gratitude, we are so privileged (if you choose this option please explain why) and couldn’t manage without them.

YANBU - men fighting in wars, men protecting women (from men) are not female privileges.

OP posts:
littleburn · 05/06/2023 19:25

I find it amusing that a man who describes women as 'lazy and entitled' spends so much of his day a) not working and b) assuming work colleagues want to hear his unasked for opinions. Never mind OP, you and the girls get on with the heavy lifting of actually working whilst he sits there nattering on!

Paris14eme · 05/06/2023 19:28

Jesus wept! Why did his mother bother with the pain of childbirth to bring this cretinous Andrew Tate 2.0 type into the world, for the love of God? (And I have 4 sons who would never speak such bilge because they’ve learned respect for women from their mother). Cherchez la mere.

ReachForTheMars · 05/06/2023 19:28

Stop fighting him and tell your workplace you feel its inappropriate talk in the workplace. By way of resolution youd like a mandatory training course and for him to STFU. Then enjoy watching him enduring the course knowing who management sided with.

ReachForTheMars · 05/06/2023 19:29

ReachForTheMars · 05/06/2023 19:28

Stop fighting him and tell your workplace you feel its inappropriate talk in the workplace. By way of resolution youd like a mandatory training course and for him to STFU. Then enjoy watching him enduring the course knowing who management sided with.

Finally, you cant argue with stupid so stop trying

nilsmousehammer · 05/06/2023 19:40

DogEar · 05/06/2023 18:53

A predator for example could only have been dealt with by sufficient strength and size. Hunting required sufficient stamina and strength.

Women hunted too, stopping when pregnancy, childbirth, injury or age stopped them. Even history is rewritten to exclude women’s roles.

I believe when it comes to stamina in extreme circumstances women trump men due to them having more brown fat.
I’m also sure I’ve read that much of the hunting that took place took stealth and cunning, rather than brute force and strength.

Prior to the Romans, in the tribes in Britain women were warriors, leaders, land owners, priests.... Patriarchy arrived with that entirely male invading force. Prior to that, women were doing perfectly well in those roles.

anythinginapinch · 05/06/2023 19:41

Complain again and say this is making it impossible for you to do your job and if you have to leave you'll put in an ET claim for constructive dismissal.

If he was saying things that were relentlessly critical of black people, disable people, gay people ... I bloody bet "management" would be more responsive. It's because it's "gender wars" stuff, and women are not expected to find it deeply and profoundly humiliating and offensive, but are meant to think privately "what a ball-bag" and say nothing, that management don't give a fuck.

Write a complaint. You are being expected to tolerate or move away from, a stream of offensive talk about a protected characteristic. Don't put up with it.

Greengagesnfennel · 05/06/2023 19:48

Women don't like to go to war and kill people true. In fact women don't do much killing in general.

Not necessairly an inferior personality trait.

megletthesecond · 05/06/2023 19:50

Bearing in mind they start all the wars they can jolly well fight in them.

SerafinasGoose · 05/06/2023 20:10

OMG. A live incel. Imagine having one in your actual office?

On the one hand, given what's above I'd be inclined to write him off as pretty pathetic and shove on noise-cancelling earphones with a bored 'that's nice, dear'. Arseholes like this love making everyone else a present of their worthless opinions and get very irate over being ignored.

On the other hand, listening to this BS constantly dinged in your ears must be wearing to say the least, though. It's not acceptable, it's not clever, it's against the EA 2010 and it could likely be construed as sexist bullying. To these ends, his behaviour is probably illegal.

I'd kick this one up to HR and refuse to engage with the dick directly. Someone in authority needs to tell him to nix it - preferably a senior woman 😀

Thatladdo · 05/06/2023 20:11

"I’ve argued - men fight in wars, do the protecting, do the heavy lifting, because this is the patriarchy"
Men fight in wars because they are stronger and more agressive 90% of the time, its not female privilege its simply biological fact.
He arent the same or equal - we each have certain traits which differ and hopefully ( so far human kinds prospered ) compliment each other to greater effect that either one would achieve alone.

SerafinasGoose · 05/06/2023 20:13

DogEar · 05/06/2023 18:48

To start off with probably, fair point.
No one bats an eyelid any more, yet he still goes on, triggered by whatever women hating drivel he’s read on Facebook or Twitter.

Red pill sites, almost certainly. Attitudes like this belonged in the ark until they started finding seedy dark corners on the www to vent their female-hatred and have their views validated by similarly inadequate males.

It's been years since this kind of backward office conversation has been tolerated.

HadalyEve · 05/06/2023 20:53

Greengagesnfennel · 05/06/2023 19:48

Women don't like to go to war and kill people true. In fact women don't do much killing in general.

Not necessairly an inferior personality trait.

Men don’t like it either.

alpenguin · 05/06/2023 20:56

Just respond “yes dear” ad infinitum

Toxicityofourcity · 05/06/2023 21:54

Ugh, this is just so misogynistic, ridiculous, obnoxious... men wouldn't have to fight in wars, if they didn't fucking start them!

And protect us from who... other horrible men perhaps?

Honestly, the older I get, the more I really dislike most men.

HadalyEve · 06/06/2023 07:02

men wouldn't have to fight in wars, if they didn't fucking start them!

The men who start the wars are not the men who have to fight in them. It’s always been that way, it’s men in power sending other men to their deaths.

Do you think the Russian conscripts started Putin’s war? Do you think they have a choice to not go when called up by Putin’s government? As for Ukraine, do you think any of the men in Ukraine started the war they are fighting and losing their lives in?

Velvian · 06/06/2023 07:05

How many wars has your colleague fought in, op? Has he done much mining?

Regholdsworthswaterbed · 06/06/2023 07:57

I'd just ask him what wars he's ever fought in. It reminds be of when the older generation bleat on about bringing back national service, when they were too young to have done it themselves. Also who does he think did all the 'mens' jobs back home while they were fighting in the war?

Evaka · 06/06/2023 08:05

I'm not going to dignify this non-debate with a view and nor should you. I would wear ear buds and make an exaggerated "I can't hear you" gesture every time he speaks. Encourage others to do same. Cut off his oxygen.

hennybeans · 06/06/2023 08:17

I read this the other day:
Man: if there were no men, who would protect you?
Woman: protect me from what?

RightOldMe · 06/06/2023 08:17

Hmm either men are biologically stronger so they shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's sports or men and women are equal and women can lift men and fight just as well as men. We have to decide where we stand. The goal post can't be moving depending on what a man is saying/doing.

Lidlpopdrinker · 06/06/2023 08:20

Offer him some advice. You know men love a bit of unsolicited advice.

  1. Tell his fellow men to stop starting wars, so they won’t have to fight and die in them.
  2. Tell his fellow men to stop raping and attacking women, then we won’t need protecting.
  3. Fake a bad back if he doesn’t want to lift things.
LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 06/06/2023 08:35

Sex is a protected characteristic; his comments constitute bullying and harassment; this is unlawful. Your management are tacitly condoning him.

What does he have that’s so special they don’t pick him up on it? Are you secure enough in your role to challenge management? Absolutely no point talking to him.

EBearhug · 06/06/2023 08:37

Women did work in mines until after the 1842 Mines Act, which banned them until 1985 (by which point there were very few mines left.) Women weren't allowed in parliament until the 20th century, so let's guess which sex banned them by passing the act...

HadalyEve · 06/06/2023 08:47

EBearhug · 06/06/2023 08:37

Women did work in mines until after the 1842 Mines Act, which banned them until 1985 (by which point there were very few mines left.) Women weren't allowed in parliament until the 20th century, so let's guess which sex banned them by passing the act...

And which class.

Ihatepickingausername3 · 06/06/2023 08:52

Indeed

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