To not run personal errands for my boss

[Sundaycoffee]

How would you handle a boss asking you to run personal errands when it is not in your job description. I am her personal assistant and also look after 2 other directors (but she is my main line manager), so this is a bit of a grey area maybe due to my job title? Nowhere on my job description does it mention running personal errands and none of the other PAs in the business run personal errands for their managers. (I have asked and they all seem shocked at the things I am being asked to do).

Recently she has asked me to:
Find quotes for taxis to the airport for a personal holiday
Print off personal forms for her husband who doesn't even work in the company.
Research bars for her to go on a night out with friends
Research holiday villas for a girls holiday

I do all these things during work hours and not in my own time but I just feel like this seems really cheeky when I am already run off my feet doing work related tasks.

Is it worth approaching this in any way or do I just grin and bear it?

You've forgotten the point, which was that the word "servant" is not actually in and of itself derogatory, it doesn't even solely refer to cleaning duties as you seem to think. Nor Is "assistant" necessarily a glamorous title, think of Healthcare Assistant - that's clearly not the tasks you expect to perform in an office as a PA. That said, a domestic servant is not a humiliating role either and it's objectionable that you are striving so hard to suggest it is.

If it takes more than 15 minutes to look up a few bars, write them down and print a document, then you've got a fairly shit PA on your hands. It's just some minor tasks to ease the pressure for someone expected to work long hours. If OP has important projects or doesn't want to do it that's fine, but it isn't unusual and she might find she's passed along to the next manager rather than moving around with the new boss and being given additional opportunities. All your puffing about it won't help OP in her career, however well intentioned I'm sure it is.

"You've forgotten the point, which was that the word "servant" is not actually in and of itself derogatory, it doesn't even solely refer to cleaning duties as you seem to think. Nor Is "assistant" necessarily a glamorous title, think of Healthcare Assistant - that's clearly not the tasks you expect to perform in an office as a PA. That said, a domestic servant is not a humiliating role either and it's objectionable that you are striving so hard to suggest it is
."

Your original response was to a PP saying they didn't need 'some sort of servant'. 'Servant' brings to mind domestic servant, which means to me a valet or lady's maid, not a cleaner. In a corporate environment, yes I would object to it being implied that I am there to solely perform personal or household duties rather than business knowledge. Of course 'assistant' isn't glamorous, no idea where you got that idea anyone thinks it is.

Looking up a few bars might take 15 minutes but it also takes away from other work.

I'm 'puffing' (weird term, but I suppose it goes well with some of the other snarky, witless comments on this thread) because of the sexism, and that women unthinkingly accept and encourage it. The OP can have a discussion with her manager, it's ok for her know she can question this, which many on this thread seem to think she can't.

And where exactly do you fall - you are a PA, have a PA or just have a very important DH who needs a PA?

Very chippy indeed.

I was a PA very many years ago in what was them a 'big five' accountancy/management consultancy. Worked for one partner and managed the office. Two things finished me off!!!

I was repeatedly sent to M&S to return the purchases his SAHM wife didn't want.

He would only eat sandwiches from M&S. One day it was pissing rain, and I said I would happily get his sandwiches but from somewhere nearer because I didn't want to walk that distance in the rain... he went himself!

And where exactly do you fall - you are a PA, have a PA or just have a very important DH who needs a PA?
I have a shared PA, but for various reasons (external, part-time time etc) I wouldn't use them for personal tasks. I do have a home assistant who occasionally picks up personal tasks.

IME corporate business environments are still very much run by the patriarchy. The few women who do make it to the top generally get there by 'fitting in' and assuming a male mindset. I'm not saying this is right or true everywhere but with 30 odd years in the workforce it's my experience.

PAs support the most driven and demanding person/people in a business. The odd personal task is to be expected but the comments about all these personal tasks only being 'five minute jobs' is frankly laughable because when you're dealing with the most demanding person they often expect the moon on a stick within half the time a normal person can reasonably manage. Like one boss, whose wife had accidentally locked herself out of the house and broke a pane of glass to get back in. The piece of glass was an unusual shape so I had to take the template in to the closest glazing company about five miles away. Was told by boss there was no rush and next week would be fine. This was Thursday. Late on Friday afternoon, boss is out of the office and rings me to say that he's going to do it over the weekend and MUST have the glass plus putty, nails and hammer so he can do it over the weekend. Can I collect it now? I ring the glazing company and they are closing in 25 minutes. I am told by the lady from the glazing company in no uncertain terms that they close on the dot so I drop everything, drive at break neck speed through rush hour traffic to get there. I get an ear bashing from the lady at the glazing company who has no idea of what has happened. I then have to drive to B&Q to buy the putty, nails and hammer then drive another five miles through rush hour traffic to deliver it to his house. When I arrive, his wife (a SAHM) is sitting in the garden with the children. This boss had several properties including a large estate (not a million miles away) which necessitated several staff who lived on site including a full time Estate Manager. As I leave his house, my boss is ringing me to check if I am back in the office. This is Friday at 6.15pm and I am supposed to be going to the theatre. This wasn't an isolated incident. In fact, it was pretty much my daily life in that particular job and I have lots of gems like this which I can't detail here for risk of outing myself.

The odd personal task? Of course. Lots of personal tasks that aren't outlined in the job description or discussed at interview? No thanks. I've generally found that jobs that involve lots of running around doing personal tasks = less professional environments + entitled behaviour + high levels of twattery + high stress.

There are lots of threads on MN at the moment by women bemoaning the fact that they are having to do pretty much everything house/child related due to having a lazy and/or useless DH/DP. What advice are they getting? Well, unlike this thread they are very rarely being told to suck it up and do it because it's their job as a wife and mother.

I used to be a senior PA. In the food industry, my bosses expected me to keep abreast of new restaurants; they regularly took me out for lunch to amazing places. I booked all their travel; the travel agency flew me on all-expenses ‘testing out BA Club class’ trip to HK. I’d drive them to the airport, but I’d get to keep their fancy cars until they were back.

in the City, we were expected to do everything personal, so that our bosses could spend their time making money. One boss did have a very demanding wife, who drove him up the wall. One of my more memorable tasks was tracking down which car pound her car had been taken to, after she had a boozy lunch and forgot where she’d illegally parked it!

in short, most PAs at a certain level should expect to do personal stuff. I was very well remunerated, though.

These are all things I’d do for my boss or co-worker if they just mentioned it in passing. And I’m a not a PA.

BUT setting boundaries is good. And they are asking you rather than just asking in passing if anyone knows taxi prices, or hotels or… etc.

also but, these take moments. If you can do them, then do. If the slope gets slippery just say “no sorry, working on ‘work thing’”.

Stop harassing me please, it's creepy.

"There are lots of threads on MN at the moment by women bemoaning the fact that they are having to do pretty much everything house/child related due to having a lazy and/or useless DH/DP. What advice are they getting? Well, unlike this thread they are very rarely being told to suck it up and do it because it's their job as a wife and mother."

@LittleMissViolet that struck me too.

You could just do as you promised earlier and not engage with me - instead of making underhand comments - but I'm guessing you do like have the last word on all things - directly or indirectly.

Jesus give it up. Reported.

Of course you would. We all would but they're not really what we're talking about here. Because we're viewed as the Office Wife and Mum, we'll also get those minor requests x 100. Need a plaster/stamp/painkiller/paper clip/directions/train times? Ask the PA. Squeaky cubicle door in the gents loo (I kid you not!). Tell the PA. Photocopier jammed/out of toner. Tell the PA. Can't find random spreadsheet that has already been emailed to you five times already? Ask the PA. Need to leave office at 1pm on dot? Ask PA to remind you. Keep forgetting to bring your suit when you have a very important high level meeting planned? Ask PA to remind you. These aren't even requests from the boss. These are randoms in the office. I seriously wonder how some people remember how to put their underpants on in the morning.

We're talking about a level of personal tasks that aren't clarified on the job description/at interview and eat into your time impacting your ability to do actual business tasks. They don't add value to your career. They're fine if you:-
-don't mind doing them
-have the capacity to do them
-aren't concerned about developing knowledge/skills
-are happy to do pretty much the same job until retirement
-are a keen and enthusiastic graduate who naively thinks saying yes to everything will help you progress

I have a lot of PA friends. The general gripe is that no one knows exactly what we are doing or how long any of it takes. It's very difficult to quantify. We don't see a set number of clients or patients per day. The usual advice to time management is either to say no to things or delegate down or block out time in your diary or lock your office door. How do we do that?! The general consensus from pretty much everyone including the people on this thread is to 'do it all'. Yet the women who say they are 'doing it all' to keep the family/home wheels keep turning are saying they aren't happy because it's too much to manage and what they are doing isn't seen/valued by their DH/DP. The more they do the more it is expected.

I've got a very good PA job but like @BirdChirp have got it by being clear on what I want to do at the recruitment/initial stages. In the Op's shoes, I would discuss the expectations around the personal tasks with that boss but if there looked like there was no movement and it was making me unhappy I would be looking around for another job. There are lots of PA jobs at the moment and if you're good then you'll always be in demand.

I would never have made a PA!! So demeaning.

I always did this kind of thing as an EA. I liked getting out of the office to do bits and pieces. But if I didn't have time I'd just reply and say 'I didn't manage to get around to this today, I had xyz on'.

@mayorofcasterbridge I would never have made a PA!! So demeaning. don't be so stuck up. Most PAs I knew used being a PA as a springboard. They were all educated in business and often used their experience to go into management positions. We weren't badly paid either.

I don’t know the private sector well at all. Can I ask- how many hours/week are people who need a PA for personal tasks working?

It varies, but most senior people I have been a PA for are workaholics, their job is also their interest in life. So they work weekends, evenings, but also tend to travel a lot. So 50+ hours a week I suppose.

'Team PA' is a bit different where you are working for quite a few mid-level managers who tend to do more normal hours (and shouldn't be asking for anything personal at all).

You see, that would be a light week for many in teaching, especially senior leaders. Not a criticism, just interesting to note the differences. Ultimately it’s about how much money the job makes directly I guess.

50+ hours with an average of 25 days holiday though.

Oh I totally get it. It genuinely wasn’t a criticism.

Teaching holidays are the envy of the working world but I’d love to be able to take a day off for my birthday or to go to a friend’s wedding, or to sort out my personal shit!

Grass is always greener and all that!

I work at a senior level and have a PA that I share with one other person.

I would expect my PA to do the taxi one, but the other items mentioned feel like this manager is taking the mick. It sounds like they are new to having a PA and possibly not sure what's reasonable to ask, so will push boundaries until you push back.

In saying that I do have a housekeeper that I pay for out of my own money at home, who sorts out all my personal admin, so perhaps I am compartmentalising who does what job in my life.

As well as organising my diary and meetings etc, I'd expect my PA to print things off at the printer for me, write up my notes, go out to get my lunch if I didn't have time (I would of course give her the money to do so), arrange lunches/dinners/drinks with others, go shopping for gifts for contacts, buy flowers, organise work drinks/away days etc.

It might be helpful for you to sit down with this particular manager and explain that some of this personal stuff means you can't get your work work done, so you'll have to give it back to her.