To not run personal errands for my boss

[Sundaycoffee]

How would you handle a boss asking you to run personal errands when it is not in your job description. I am her personal assistant and also look after 2 other directors (but she is my main line manager), so this is a bit of a grey area maybe due to my job title? Nowhere on my job description does it mention running personal errands and none of the other PAs in the business run personal errands for their managers. (I have asked and they all seem shocked at the things I am being asked to do).

Recently she has asked me to:
Find quotes for taxis to the airport for a personal holiday
Print off personal forms for her husband who doesn't even work in the company.
Research bars for her to go on a night out with friends
Research holiday villas for a girls holiday

I do all these things during work hours and not in my own time but I just feel like this seems really cheeky when I am already run off my feet doing work related tasks.

Is it worth approaching this in any way or do I just grin and bear it?

Very poor advice indeed.

If you resent being asked to carry out personal errands, then you need an open and honest conversation about it with your new manager. Carrying out the errands poorly will only make you look bad and unprofessional.

Well the clue there is that it was a concierge service, not PAs carrying out this work.

I've been a PA/EA for over 30 years in many different companies from huge corporates to tiny companies. It depends on the culture of the company and the manager-PA relationship how much personal admin is done. Sorting out drinks for a personal girls' night out is pretty far outside the reasonable boundaries of what is usual.

Quite normal in the PA work I've done including arranging car service, booking personal travel, buying gifts, booking restaurants.

It seems from this thread it's not unusual.
Sorry I should have been clearer, my point about the concierge service is that companies do not resent paying to organise their employees' private lives, it is not considered an abuse of company resources. If your point is that you think personal errands are beneath you that's fine too.

I do personal bits and bobs for my boss all the time, it doesn't bother me at all if its within work hours.
Works in my favour anyway because if he's not tied up doing it then he's making money for the company and we have a profit share system.

It seems from this thread it's not unusual.
Sorry I should have been clearer, my point about the concierge service is that companies do not resent paying to organise their employees' private lives, it is not considered an abuse of company resources. If your point is that you think personal errands are beneath you that's fine too.

I didn't say it was beneath me. I'm busy, as are most EAs. My skills and time are better utilised in activities that directly support the business. I do some amount of personal admin, but it is minor. I'm still of the view that researching a girls' night out exceeds what is normal and is taking unfair advantage of the PA.

I'm a PA in a law firm and I do quite a lot of personal tasks for the partner I work for. It makes sense for him to pass a lot of his life admin over to me so that he can get on with his billable work, especially as his charge-out rate is over £1K an hour. The more junior lawyers I work for only rarely ask for help with personal tasks.

My skills and time are better utilised in activities that directly support the business
In dh's job he is charged out at £400/hour (he's relatively cheap) - so he spends time organising his private life instead of billing or his PA does it, he has only so many hours in the day.
He does it - business loses £400/hour and still pays £50/hr on the PA. Business loses £450.
PA does it and it costs the business £50/hour and they gain £400/hour. Business gains £350
Can you see why they want the PA to do it? Billable staff are the money makers - their time is what pays your wages - you are a cost, and you bring in no money - you are there to support the money makers.

If you don't feel it's beneath you why do you feel it's taking unfair advantage - because it certainly helps the business - it's what you are there for - no?

This is my experience too. I've also been a PA for a very long time and worked in many different settings.

The Op works for three directors. I should imagine that she has enough work to deal with just the business side of things let alone organising 'drinks for the girls'. I think this is the problem with many PA jobs that there is the expectation to take on anything and everything without complaint until you eventually buckle under the workload.

That's fine if it's norm in his company. If all the other partners are doing the same and the expectation is that the PA will do whatever.

The Op is saying that this is not the norm where she works. She helps with personal tasks but not to this extent. She's asked the other PAs and none of them do this either. She quite rightly feels that this director is taking the piss a bit.

If she has too much work - that is the problem that she needs to sort - but she is getting everything done within her working hours, so it's going to be tricky navigating around that.

Her job description doesn't include these tasks. It's probably says something like 'any reasonable request' or words to that effect. The sort of sentence that everyone has in their job description.

If you were a Credit Controller and the Finance Director started asking you to pick up his dry cleaning or fill out some forms for his wife, would you be happy? Because at the end of the day, it could be argued that this would come under 'any reasonable request'. After all, your maximising the directors time.... If it doesn't matter that the Op is doing stuff outside her job description then that should apply to everyone, shouldn't it?

And what is the norm? Dh never used the concierge service - not once, it felt too weird and besides I was a SAHM so I did all that stuff (for better or worse) - I suspect the women on the team did use it, not having a wife at home - especially if they were single.

Credit controller vs personal assistant. Clue in the job title?

"In dh's job he is charged out at £400/hour (he's relatively cheap) - so he spends time organising his private life instead of billing or his PA does it, he has only so many hours in the day.

If you don't feel it's beneath you why do you feel it's taking unfair advantage - because it certainly helps the business - it's what you are there for - no?"

You seem to neither be a PA, or have a PA, so not sure why you think your opinion is at all relevant.

Your DH has a weekend to organise his private life, it's not on his PA to e.g. organise his birthday party for him. He's not a HNWI individual who has hired a personal PA

It's taking unfair advantage as it is hard for a PA to push back against unreasonable demands as the attitude can be 'that's what they are there for' and it an be a grey area. It's for a manager to be a decent person and not put the PA in that uncomfortable position. They should have a discussion about expectations on personal work, preferably at interview.

If I'm organising my manager's birthday party, then I have less time to source investment leads and set up meetings. If I'm looking up holiday destinations then I have less time to do competitive analysis on other companies. I work much more than my scheduled hours. I too have a personal life I need to organise. Many PAs are in this situation, and why it is unfair advantage and a power trip to give ludicrous tasks like sourcing girls' night drink venues.

Feed this back to your old boss then. It might be this new boss thinks this is what PAs do at this level and just needs a gentle reminder not to take the mickey.

I think it’s part of the job really within reason and as long as it’s not preventing you from doing proper work

When I was a PA I regularly carried out personal errands. I exchanged money for holidays, shortlisted and arranged interviews for nannies, found and booked amazing holidays (think that's half the reason I get glowing references from him 10 years later), helped with gift ideas for family and often bought the gifts, booked personal appointments, arranged travel for his in-laws to visit. My manager was a very senior executive. Anything I could do to help him use his own time for the business was seen as money well spent by the company. It helped that he was always very appreciative of my efforts and his wife had a closer relationship with me than her own husband. It was quite nice being so indispensable- there was no chance of him ever losing me during a redundancy period. If he had to, I think he would have had me back immediately and paid my wage from his own money.

In my old job our PA would be regularly running personal errands - typically the more senior, the more personal errands but included shopping for wife's/kids birthday and Xmas presents, holidays, airport transfers, dinner plans, dry cleaning, all sorts. It was a wonder she got anything else done sometimes! In my current job (same job, different company) I wouldn't dream of asking our PA to run any personal errands and nor would the other people who she works for. We all have high charge out rates and ensure we use our time at work on work related matters to maximise that. High charge out rates doesn't make our work any more important to justify asking someone else to do our personal admin in my opinion. My PA doesn't have a charge out rate but adds equal value to the business.
Perhaps a bit difficult if the personal errand requests have crept up, but our PA had an initial meeting with each of us, and we have an annual refresh, of what we can do for her, and what she can/does do for us - also a refresh as roles change. Perhaps worth re-basing expectations if you aren't happy with how things are at the moment.

I think it's perhaps different if you are a PA to just one individual but in my experience I think that is a rarity (and becoming rarer!).

If you are overworked then that is up to you to manage in agreement with your manager - you always have the option of going elsewhere if you don't like the demeaning work of organising a small part of someone's private life - which to be honest is very similar work to the business side of things. Our PA will arrange a works night out - there isn't a big difference - I expect you do feel it's beneath you but for some weird reason you won't admit it.

I would leave all the personal stuff to the end of the day and only do it if I had the time.

"If you are overworked then that is up to you to manage in agreement with your manager - you always have the option of going elsewhere if you don't like the demeaning work of organising a small part of someone's private life - which to be honest is very similar work to the business side of things. Our PA will arrange a works night out - there isn't a big difference - I expect you do feel it's beneath you but for some weird reason you won't admit it."

I am not overworked, I enjoy my role and love learning from it. I do organise a small part of the CEO's personal life, which was in agreement with him. It is not at all similar to the "business side of things".

I also sometimes arrange works nights out, travel, expenses as these are directly related to the business. That is a big difference to organising someone's personal birthday drinks. It's not beneath me, it is just not part of my role.

You've got a really outdated view of what many PAs now do.

Thanks for a reasonable post about how it should be handled, rather than 'well she's a PA and should just do anything asked'.

You've got a really outdated view of what many PAs now do.

Completely agree.

General assumption seems to be that all PAs are general lackeys who are there to pick up anything and everything. I am a business PA with a lot of experience and while I am happy to do the odd personal task to support my boss and make their life easier I have no interest in sorting out their bin collections or organising their dog walker. If I wanted to do that, I would be working for Barry the Builder down the road.