Page 5 | To not run personal errands for my boss

Sundaycoffee · 2023-06-04T23:02:35+00:00

How would you handle a boss asking you to run personal errands when it is not in your job description. I am her personal assistant and also look after 2 other directors (but she is my main line manager), so this is a bit of a grey area maybe due to my job title? Nowhere on my job description does it mention running personal errands and none of the other PAs in the business run personal errands for their managers. (I have asked and they all seem shocked at the things I am being asked to do). Recently she has asked me to: Find quotes for taxis to the airport for a personal holiday Print off personal forms for her husband who doesn't even work in the company. Research bars for her to go on a night out with friends Research holiday villas for a girls holiday I do all these things during work hours and not in my own time but I just feel like this seems really cheeky when I am already run off my feet doing work related tasks. Is it worth approaching this in any way or do I just grin and bear it?

Jibo · 06/06/2023 23:10

YABU (experienced EA/PA here). If you have time to get these small extra tasks done within your set working hours, not to mention complain to your colleagues about this, you're not "run off your feet". If you've got some sort of principled issue about doing personal tasks, you're probably in the wrong job, but the way to avoid it is to take on more business-related responsibilities so you can justify saying no to everything else - ask your other two bosses for more work, get more involved in a project, sort out some general office stuff to benefit all the admin team, or offer to take something off one of the other PAs' plates. Based on how you've come across in earlier posts on this thread though, I doubt you'll do any of that.

bobblyjob · 07/06/2023 03:36

I too am very fucking expensive and busy but still manage to organise birthday presents and book my own taxis IN MY OWN TIME without needing some sort of servant paid for by my company. All these things that a PA is meant to be doing so the big bosses can get on with bringing in cash is stuff those bosses should be doing in their private time not on company hours. I am gobsmacked by some of this and hope I never turn into one of those people…

MRex · 07/06/2023 06:36

bobblyjob · 07/06/2023 03:36

I too am very fucking expensive and busy but still manage to organise birthday presents and book my own taxis IN MY OWN TIME without needing some sort of servant paid for by my company. All these things that a PA is meant to be doing so the big bosses can get on with bringing in cash is stuff those bosses should be doing in their private time not on company hours. I am gobsmacked by some of this and hope I never turn into one of those people…

We aren't talking about 9-5 workers, but people who are working some days 7am for a breakfast meeting through to a business dinner ending around 9.30pm. It's all rather different than a 9-5 job, which is an important distinction to recognise why companies happily pay for assistants.

By the way, a servant is a person who performs duties for others and an assistant is a person who assists someone; there's no gotcha in your rename, because it's only convention which word is used.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 07:23

"By the way, a servant is a person who performs duties for others and an assistant is a person who assists someone; there's no gotcha in your rename, because it's only convention which word is used."

You think that 'servant' and a PA in a corporate context are interchangeable terms? That attitude say it all really.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 07:50

This thread has been so depressing in places. I have been an EA for 30 years. I work for a CEO, who works from 8am - 9pm. I lighten his burden by assisting in his WORK. I prioritise his emails, organise his schedule and travel, prepare information for him. I am involved in various projects in the business. I love my job and my boss, and do the very occasional personal thing for him, by mutual agreement.

It has not always been like this. In past jobs there has been a definite power trip and 'taking advantage' element. PA/EA is a job largely done by women and that is a huge factor in why this happens. At some point I woke up and realised doing the things below held me back from learning anything and gaining respect, so pushed back. Each time a new member of staff joins I have to educate them that I have more than one brain cell rattling around and am not there to wipe their arse.

The fact that this thread is probably posted by mainly women, and there are so many of the opinion that a PA is basically a servant? Internalised misogyny.

These are the lowlights of my PA career (all in corporate companies). While women are routinely expected to do these things in a business context, they are held back from learning and respect.

Cutting up the CEO's lunch so they can eat with one hand
Sewing a buckle on a shoe
Doing their 6 year old's homework
Walking into a meeting to bring them a particular teabag
Having them ask me pour coffee from a percolator while they stand next to me watching
Have a female boss ask me to raise my top as she wanted to see how fat I was compared to her

And so many more. And it is so hard to draw the line, as the expectation is you are there to do everything . Some PAs love the personal stuff, others do not, and want to learn more about the business. And that should be respected, rather than seeing the manager as some kind of god who must be served.

nevynevster · 07/06/2023 07:57

I would say that small scale personal tasks are not unreasonable e.g. lunch or printing. Researching bars or holiday destinations I would push back. If you wanted you could say something like "sorry I don't feel confortable doing that as I don't know you and your friends and it is such a personal thing".

DonnaBanana · 07/06/2023 08:10

I do think it's a bit CF-ery when able- bodied people ask you to do something they could do themselves

That is literally the entire point of hiring people. I could clean my house but I pay a cleaner.. am I a CF?

Blossomtoes · 07/06/2023 08:36

DonnaBanana · 07/06/2023 08:10

I do think it's a bit CF-ery when able- bodied people ask you to do something they could do themselves

That is literally the entire point of hiring people. I could clean my house but I pay a cleaner.. am I a CF?

Precisely that. There must be some very insecure people in the world if they think it demeans them to spend time they’re being paid for doing tasks their boss asks them to do.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 08:55

"Precisely that. There must be some very insecure people in the world if they think it demeans them to spend time they’re being paid for doing tasks their boss asks them to do."

All jobs have a line, you don't just blindly do whatever is asked. If you asked your cleaner to scrub the floor with a toothbrush in her teeth is that ok as the 'boss' asked her to do it and it's in her paid work time?

It's perfectly ok to discuss with a manager what you consider to be outside the realms of your role.

Grazedpad · 07/06/2023 09:22

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 08:55

"Precisely that. There must be some very insecure people in the world if they think it demeans them to spend time they’re being paid for doing tasks their boss asks them to do."

All jobs have a line, you don't just blindly do whatever is asked. If you asked your cleaner to scrub the floor with a toothbrush in her teeth is that ok as the 'boss' asked her to do it and it's in her paid work time?

It's perfectly ok to discuss with a manager what you consider to be outside the realms of your role.

So boss asks -
Find me a bar to meet with client
Find me a bar to meet with ex colleague
Find me a bar to meet with a friend tonight

All the same job but you would do the first, query the second to make sure definitely work based and refuse the third - unless on further interrogation of “friend” - they are a potential business lead?

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 09:42

"So boss asks -
Find me a bar to meet with client
Find me a bar to meet with ex colleague
Find me a bar to meet with a friend tonight

All the same job but you would do the first, query the second to make sure definitely work based and refuse the third - unless on further interrogation of “friend” - they are a potential business lead?"

No. You either don't have the capacity to understand nuance or are ridiculously in awe of fee earners like your husband.

I think you are clouded by the fact that you did your DH's personal admin as a SAHM and don't see why it shouldn't be some other woman's job now.

Either way - I won't be engaging with you further.

Grazedpad · 07/06/2023 09:50

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 09:42

"So boss asks -
Find me a bar to meet with client
Find me a bar to meet with ex colleague
Find me a bar to meet with a friend tonight

All the same job but you would do the first, query the second to make sure definitely work based and refuse the third - unless on further interrogation of “friend” - they are a potential business lead?"

No. You either don't have the capacity to understand nuance or are ridiculously in awe of fee earners like your husband.

I think you are clouded by the fact that you did your DH's personal admin as a SAHM and don't see why it shouldn't be some other woman's job now.

Either way - I won't be engaging with you further.

No, I'm saying it's all the same job - it's not the same as asking a cleaner to scrub the floor with a toothbrush in her teeth That would be a deliberately humiliating request with no benefit to anyone - it's a daft analogy.
You sound like you have a huge chip on your shoulder about being a PA, maybe you should consider retraining.

Blossomtoes · 07/06/2023 12:05

All the same job but you would do the first, query the second to make sure definitely work based and refuse the third - unless on further interrogation of “friend” - they are a potential business lead?"

You wouldn’t last long anywhere I’ve ever worked if you did that.

DonnaBanana · 07/06/2023 12:07

I could just imagine some of you working in a cafe. Take food orders: fine. Cook and serve food: fine. "Can you change a fiver for me from your till?" I'm not paid to do that, I quit.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 13:42

Blossomtoes · 07/06/2023 12:05

All the same job but you would do the first, query the second to make sure definitely work based and refuse the third - unless on further interrogation of “friend” - they are a potential business lead?"

You wouldn’t last long anywhere I’ve ever worked if you did that.

No-one has suggested they work like that.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 13:43

DonnaBanana · 07/06/2023 12:07

I could just imagine some of you working in a cafe. Take food orders: fine. Cook and serve food: fine. "Can you change a fiver for me from your till?" I'm not paid to do that, I quit.

Not even close to being a similar situation.

LittleMissViolet · 07/06/2023 14:36

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 07:50

This thread has been so depressing in places. I have been an EA for 30 years. I work for a CEO, who works from 8am - 9pm. I lighten his burden by assisting in his WORK. I prioritise his emails, organise his schedule and travel, prepare information for him. I am involved in various projects in the business. I love my job and my boss, and do the very occasional personal thing for him, by mutual agreement.

It has not always been like this. In past jobs there has been a definite power trip and 'taking advantage' element. PA/EA is a job largely done by women and that is a huge factor in why this happens. At some point I woke up and realised doing the things below held me back from learning anything and gaining respect, so pushed back. Each time a new member of staff joins I have to educate them that I have more than one brain cell rattling around and am not there to wipe their arse.

The fact that this thread is probably posted by mainly women, and there are so many of the opinion that a PA is basically a servant? Internalised misogyny.

These are the lowlights of my PA career (all in corporate companies). While women are routinely expected to do these things in a business context, they are held back from learning and respect.

Cutting up the CEO's lunch so they can eat with one hand
Sewing a buckle on a shoe
Doing their 6 year old's homework
Walking into a meeting to bring them a particular teabag
Having them ask me pour coffee from a percolator while they stand next to me watching
Have a female boss ask me to raise my top as she wanted to see how fat I was compared to her

And so many more. And it is so hard to draw the line, as the expectation is you are there to do everything . Some PAs love the personal stuff, others do not, and want to learn more about the business. And that should be respected, rather than seeing the manager as some kind of god who must be served.

I could have written this. I am in a very similar job and have very similar experience. I have also been on the receiving end of all sorts of requests. Very early on in my career my friends would absolutely howl at some of the things I was asked to do which quite frankly were a piss take. It was great conversation fodder but it actually really got me down. When you're flat out trying to get Board packs out or pull together a report that's needed for a meeting in a couple of hours and you're being asked to glue someone's heel on or source a tailor who can fit and make a suit in 48 hours for Royal Ascot (you can't!) or organising a child's christening when the wife is a SAHM it does get a bit wearing.

PA jobs have got bigger and more complex. I'm very lucky in that I only work for one boss but generally PAs are expected to support multiple bosses and recruiting is based on forecasted workload. This is generally viewed as diary management, travel, expenses, event management, research and projects. Personal stuff comes under the 'anything else' heading. I have absolutely no problem in doing odd bits but previous experience has taught me that this support has a tendency to 'creep' and, before you know it, you are doing all sorts at the expense of getting the 'day job' done. If you suck it up and do it, you end put upon and working silly hours. If you try and push back, you're either viewed as unhelpful or a stuck up bitch. I had one boss who said that younger PAs were always so helpful and older PAs were always quite hard. Fact is, it's quite hard to last the distance if you say yes to everything. I still laugh when I think about that and I had a very good relationship with that boss.

Some of the people commenting on this thread clearly haven't worked as PAs so have no idea how it feels to be on the receiving end of it. I am super proactive with lots of work and projects on the go. I know my stuff. I don't sit at my desk twiddling my thumbs and waiting for my boss to give me 'tasks'.

LittleMissViolet · 07/06/2023 14:40

Also, where do you draw the line on the personal tasks? Picking children up for school? Being at home while the plumber is there? Taking the dog to the vet? Project managing a house extension? Personal tasks for one person could be a full time job in itself!

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 15:01

@LittleMissViolet totally with you on all points!

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 15:08

To those that have a corporate PA:
Please check in with them regularly as a PP suggested downthread, to see what they can do for you and you can do for them Respect is a 2-way street. Good PAs are hard to find and you don't want to lose one by overstepping and taking advantage. Check how much personal work they are happy with.

To those that are a corporate PA:
If you are happy with lots of personal admin then great, you've found your niche, it can be great to be supportive. If you want to learn and be more involved in the business rather than personal admin, please speak up to your manager and see what can be done. Don't be defined by others' limited view of what a PA is or does.

And to those who have never been a PA / never had a PA in a corporate environment, you don't understand and your posts are irrelevant.

Blossomtoes · 07/06/2023 15:58

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 13:42

No-one has suggested they work like that.

Show quote history

You just did. That was a direct quote from your post.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 16:09

I was quoting someone else.

MRex · 07/06/2023 17:22

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 07:23

"By the way, a servant is a person who performs duties for others and an assistant is a person who assists someone; there's no gotcha in your rename, because it's only convention which word is used."

You think that 'servant' and a PA in a corporate context are interchangeable terms? That attitude say it all really.

You've genuinely never heard of a civil servant nor a public servant? That's amazing.

BirdChirp · 07/06/2023 17:41

"You've genuinely never heard of a civil servant nor a public servant? That's amazing."

And for a PA, what do you suggest the word in from of 'servant' would be? I think you know pretty well that the word servant by itself generally means a domestic servant.

Grazedpad · 07/06/2023 18:51

Yep big chip!😁