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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this friendship is doomed

86 replies

Ivanovaa · 04/06/2023 10:42

We recently moved to a new town and I just found out that one of the people I befriended is an evangelical born again christian. I am actually quite shocked that my lovely, kind and cool seeming friend is also a fundamental christian who believes in hell, sin, saving people and is against abortion and homosexuality.

Other than sometimes referring to how much strength she gets from god, she never talks about these things and our relationship is not different from the ones I have with other (mom) friends. She also knows that I am not religious. I thought this would not be an issue but maybe I’ve been naive.

Am I overreacting to think that she secretly believes my whole family is going to burn in hell forever if we don’t embrace jesus and that she may at some point start trying to “convert” me?

OP posts:
Pusillanimouswitch · 04/06/2023 15:35

I had a uni friend who was very committed Christian and her church was evangelical, but she wasn’t comfortable with that aspect of it. She also was very hesitant about the homophobia, and while we’re more Facebook friends now, I’d imagine she’s become even more against this over time - this was 25 years ago. She was lovely person and I’d have really missed out not having her as a friend. Don’t pre judge your friend without knowing more about her personal relationship with her faith.

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 15:36

People with strict religious beliefs, if they're nuanced, will hate (what they see as) the sin but love the sinner.

But yes OP you enjoy that warm cozy feeling of self-righteousness as you bin your friend off for her personal beliefs.

Dazedandbemused0 · 04/06/2023 15:37

Wow… so judgemental and discriminatory of you. How about you respect your new friends right to have different beliefs to you? The only person with a problem here is you.

Dontlistitonfacebook · 04/06/2023 15:44

I think you are right OP, that the thing is just to ask her.

MrsJamin · 04/06/2023 15:45

Bloody hell, you have no idea what your friend thinks and are generalising a ridiculous amount. Many Christians believe very different things. I'm a Christian from an evangelical church, all it means is that you believe you can tell other people what you believe, nothing about where they stand on gay rights etc. You're being the judgemental one!! Ask your friend what they think before you write them off as a bigot. For Pete's sake.

GeriKellmansUpdo · 04/06/2023 15:45

I guess the OP could try to gently ask her friend if she believes OP will go to hell, or gay people are sinners, but it isn't the sort of convo that flows easily over coffee, cake and playdates.

Justcallmebebes · 04/06/2023 15:49

You're the bigoted, prejudiced one here OP, not your new friend. You seem to think you're far superior. You're not

GeriKellmansUpdo · 04/06/2023 15:54

Heh, only on MN would people who believe gays, heathens and pro choice people burn in hell, be considered superior to those who do not. There are literally millions of other people to make friends with.

I also do not want evangelicals to tell me about what they believe.

Dontlistitonfacebook · 04/06/2023 15:58

The point is, OP doesn't know if her friend believes that stuff though!

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 04/06/2023 16:28

It’s difficult. I have some friends who are utterly, utterly devout, and you’d never know a thing. They speak of it, not. And I have a ‘born again’ friend who talks of little else, and has genuinely tried to advise me that unless I allow Jesus in, me and my children are destined to burn for all eternity, paying for our sins.

I think you have to see how it plays out and act accordingly. But there’s no guarantee she’ll try to ‘convert’ you.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 04/06/2023 16:30

GeriKellmansUpdo · 04/06/2023 15:54

Heh, only on MN would people who believe gays, heathens and pro choice people burn in hell, be considered superior to those who do not. There are literally millions of other people to make friends with.

I also do not want evangelicals to tell me about what they believe.

Who considers them superior?! Nobody has said that! PP said OP is not superior... That's not the same as saying OP is inferior!

Larner · 04/06/2023 16:39

GeriKellmansUpdo · 04/06/2023 11:16

Most moderate Hindus, Muslims and Jews are not against abortion and homosexuality or heathens. The key is the word "evangelical." I would find it hard to be friends with such a person.

Agree with this broadly, except I'd put Judaism in with Christianity.

The Abrahamic religions in general are massively judgy and miserable. It's quite a different mindset from the 'personal enlightenment and examination ' Eastern religions.

That said, it all depends on the sub-set. Eg some Sunni sects are massively intolerant and getting along with them on a day to day basis is difficult. Likewise some evangelical xtian groups are mad intolerant and you couldn't be living a regular life without falling foul of them. Also some of them seem to be pure tolerant but are actually cult like. I'm wary of all of these offshoot groups tbh. I'm wary of religion in general though. I think you need to talk to her. See if her beliefs chime with your worldview then you can evaluate.

Violasaremyfavourite · 04/06/2023 16:40

I have a truly religious friend. She has never tried to convert me and has been nothing but kind and tolerant.

carbonarya · 04/06/2023 16:53

Dazedandbemused0 · 04/06/2023 15:37

Wow… so judgemental and discriminatory of you. How about you respect your new friends right to have different beliefs to you? The only person with a problem here is you.

You can respect someone's right to be a homophobe without wanting to be friends with them.

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 16:57

You can respect someone's right to be a homophobe without wanting to be friends with them

Having religious beliefs about homosexuality (and sex outside marriage full stop) being against God's will isn't actually the same as being a homophobe, although people can certainly be both.
My brother is a devout fundamentalist Christian and has gay friends. And yes he believes that the sexual act is sinful, he doesn't hate them or judge them though, it's his personal beliefs.

lysozyme · 04/06/2023 17:03

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 16:57

You can respect someone's right to be a homophobe without wanting to be friends with them

Having religious beliefs about homosexuality (and sex outside marriage full stop) being against God's will isn't actually the same as being a homophobe, although people can certainly be both.
My brother is a devout fundamentalist Christian and has gay friends. And yes he believes that the sexual act is sinful, he doesn't hate them or judge them though, it's his personal beliefs.

If someone believes that homosexuality is wrong they are a homophobe.

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 17:17

If someone believes that homosexuality is wrong they are a homophobe

If they believe they are an intrinsically bad person because they're homosexual they're a homophobe.
If they believe that homosexual acts are sinful because of their personal belief, but don't dislike gay people themselves, then they're not.

I feel like people struggle with nuance now.

IWantToVote · 04/06/2023 17:20

This is a fascinating AIBU. I have some very religious friends and I sometimes wonder what they must think about me 😅

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong or who believed that it was wrong for women to have abortions in any circumstances.

I (quietly) dislike and disapprove of many religions as many of them have such outdated, sexist and divisive. The Church of England has only just decided that they will 'bless' same sex marriages (although individual churches can still refuse). They have also only just recently said they will allow Clergy in same sex relationships to have sex and marry!! It's disgusting that it's only just doing these things. It's disgusting that this has gone on so long. I'd be ashamed to be part of any religious body that had views such as this.

I think you have to ask her what her opinions or beliefs are? Maybe you have a chance to 'convert' her to a more moderate standpoint.

I imagine all of us know people who have strong beliefs about things that we disagree but that we don't actually discuss.

WassaWassa · 04/06/2023 17:22

I assume your friend isn’t a member of the Borg collective. Not all people in a church think the same. And if she isn’t foisting her views on you why are you policing the contents of her head?

lysozyme · 04/06/2023 17:29

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 17:17

If someone believes that homosexuality is wrong they are a homophobe

If they believe they are an intrinsically bad person because they're homosexual they're a homophobe.
If they believe that homosexual acts are sinful because of their personal belief, but don't dislike gay people themselves, then they're not.

I feel like people struggle with nuance now.

Of course they are. You can try to defend it all you want. Plenty of people used the "love the siner not the sin" line when trying to deny gay people their legal rights.

TUCKINGFYP0 · 04/06/2023 17:31

Lilifer · 04/06/2023 11:39

Incredible prejudice here. Drop your friend, you'll be doing her a favour.

This.

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 17:31

We'll need to agree to disagree, as to me you are missing the difference between the two positions.
I'm not personally religious.

IWantToVote · 04/06/2023 17:37

If people think homosexual acts are 'sinful' it makes them a nasty, ignorant and homophobic person.
They can try and twist things however they want but it's jacked up to hold those views.

lysozyme · 04/06/2023 17:42

FrostyFifi · 04/06/2023 17:31

We'll need to agree to disagree, as to me you are missing the difference between the two positions.
I'm not personally religious.

If you want to defend homophobia, you go right ahead. I will never be okay with it.

SnugAsA · 04/06/2023 17:53

Well, if you've already made up your mind that she's cuckoo and not worth having as a friend, why start this thread? Just a good chance to gossip about a so-called lovely (former) friend?

Most Christians are perfectly capable of having friendships with people who don't share their beliefs. If your 'friend' isn't one of them, that's too bad, but again, what's the point of the thread?