To think there’s no good option for first time buyers

[ton29]

Prepared to be told it’s always been like this but I’m not quite sure it has.

On our combined income as it is now (both earn the average UK salary) in 2018 we would have been able to buy a 3 bed semi, possibly 3 bed detached in a really lovely area. We couldn’t buy then as we were still students.

Fast forward to this year and prices have rocketed so much so the same houses are 60-80k more making them unaffordable.

Buying a flat isn’t always the answer if you’re going to outgrow it immediately because if you move fairly quickly after buying, there’s the risk of negative equity and costs associated like legal fees and stamp duty on the new property.

Buying a house in need of renovation isn’t suitable for everyone. It’s ok if you have family help or are quite creatively minded, but if you work very busy 9-5s it’s soon going to get expensive and untenable to rip up flooring and knock through walls.

Moving 30-40 miles away to a cheaper area makes life inconvenient for commuting to work and seeing family.

I’m not sure why you can no longer buy the average sized house when you are on average sized salaries. Buying wouldn’t be an issue either if it was more secure to rent, but as everyone knows renting in this country is huge instability.

I don't think anyone is 'kicking off' about ideas of typical FTB properties. And there's a general consensus about typical FTB not being what the OP is after, so the fact that some people bought a family home straight off the bat is nice but not some kind of gotcha. Really all we're saying it that this - what the OP describes below - is analogous with many people's experiences of getting their first home at many different points in the last decades. There are hideous pressures on today's FTB (and indeed almost all) buyers, absolutely no denying it, but this isn't unlike the compromises people have made previously, although there wasn't always shared ownership to help with the options.

Even a 2 up 2 down is a huge stretch for us now and means moving to a rubbish area. Looking at shared ownership for a nice 3 bed with the hope that it will gain in value anyway over the 5-10 years we stay there, meaning we will take away some equity to use against a bigger house on the open market.

I agree things are very tough for ftb but you do sound a little unwilling to compromise.

I bought last year at 40 as a ftb. My house is smaller than what I was renting. The mortgage is higher than my rent. The council tax is higher too. Given I'd like to retire at some point this house is probably my 'forever' home and it's a tiny 3 bed mid terrace with a yard, no parking and one toilet.

You have an advantage and that's you're in a relationship so two incomes and two people saving a deposit and it sounds as though you can buy something. I wouldn't buy a 1 bed flat in your situation but a 2 bed house/flat should be suitable. If 2 bed isn't sufficient then you need to move somewhere cheaper - these factors have never really changed.

What’s your deposit? Sorry if I missed it.

I think generally (late 80s/early 90s, and 2005-7 waves) there hasn’t been a bad time to buy in the last 40 years. IF you had decent deposits even some of these years were navigable.

Sure you buy today, there’s a crash tomorrow. It would really suck. But in reality crashes are fairly slow burners, so unless you are living rent free at home with parents, it’s either pay some landlord or pay a mortgage on a property that could depreciate.

We stayed in our 2 bed terrace for 7 years!
Saved like mad, overpaid the mortgage, lived minimally and managed to still have children (and 2 dogs!) while living there.

We couldn’t have afforded anything else at the time so we made the best of it.

I sympathise, I think it is really hard at the moment.

BUT our first house was a tiny 2.5 bed terrace, in a not awful but definitely not amazing area, which needed loads doing to it. That was with two post uni professional salaries (although close to entry level). We would not have been able to afford a 3 bed semi or detached in a nice area then. Not even close. Our first interest rate was also about 5.5%.

A lot of people are saying the OP should get a flat or two bedrooms house (and if that’s all they can stretch to, fair enough). But it’s not always easy to move to the step on the ladder when you outgrow it (assuming children are on the cards if that’s a concern) because nursery fees affect what the mortgage companies will lend and if you’ve gone part time as some people want to there’s a salary drop too.

We bought a three bed fixer upper back in 2014 and we wouldn’t be able to afford it on our salaries now due to the house price increase. It’s crap for FTB!

I agree going for the area you love/feel most comfortable living in and buying what you can afford there.

To me, cheaper property in a worse/less convenient or less desirable area is a false economy- you may get the bigger house I'd whatever, but you're still living in the area you don't really want to be in
I would agree, or find somewhere that's an acceptable balancing act of location and property.
Being a FTB usually means some form of compromise in terms of location, property size, amount of renovation required.
Very few people as FTB get to have their 3 bed family home in the nice area they want that's also close to friends, family and social life.

I think YABU for thinking you should be able to get a 3 bed semi as your first home. We started with a 1 bed flat then a 2 bed terraced house, then a 3 bed semi then a 4 bed detached. Climbed the property ladder over time.

Also, it's nothing to move 30 miles from family to a cheaper area if that helps you get closer to the sort of property you want. I've commuted that distance in the past just to get to work each day.

So they have to move away to get the 3 bed or buy a fixer upper - maybe both. Few people get to buy an Instagramable house as first time buyers unless they've had family help somewhere along the line or live in a cheap area and earn very well.

Just to add I agree it's ridiculous that people earning average (or above average in my immediate households case) can't buy a home. A 3 bed semi in my area is £550k min - they will be beyond reach for most ftb (me included)

So why not start with a 2 bed flat?

3 bed family homes are a big leap for most FTB.

I bought my 2 bed flat in 2020 as a first time buyer, I was 28 years old.
My partner and I are getting married in 2025 and I'm hoping that after the wedding, I'll be able to sell this flat and for us to get a 3 bed together. Housing market is a riot at the moment though so I don't envy anyone looking.

Has OP said where they are based? Yes a 3bed house might be a tall ask in the SE, but it's a normal starter home where I am from and other parts of the country including where we bought, our first house was a 3 bed semi with parking and garden for £180k 2017, could have been cheaper too if we went for an older property.

Jesus some people on this thread.

yes, buying a house has always required sacrifices. The goal was in sight making the sacrifices worthwhile.

if you are sacrificing your quality of life for an ever changing goalpost scenario knowing that you might never get what you want, as house prices go up and your relative salary goes down, it is really hard to stay positive. Great to live in a shithole working to get out of it - the family home is in sight - much harder to pay a fortune for a shithole knowing it might be forever, while previous generations tell you you just need to ‘work a bit harder’.

with you OP. Anyone who cannot sympathise has a screw loose.

And as for ‘a starter home only needs one bedroom’ well yes when you could move out at 21 with your husband and buy a house

times have changed, people are at home til 30, then they want to move out for a family home. So the ‘starter home’ which so may posters think should be Op’s first thought - how does that work for people that can’t afford to buy h til they are 35/40/45….?

so short sighted and lacking any insight or intelligence. Blame the people that can’t afford the houses. Sure.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and another poster who said it’s not 2018 anymore and it’s not easy to buy a starter home

all the starter homes have been bought and now people can’t afford to move out, or they’re bought very fast by landlords

This is where the British equivalent of the American dream ends. If two people in reasonable jobs (teacher / police / nurse etc) cannot afford to buy an average house there isn’t enough housing in this country. It’s the main reason why the Tories have no chance getting the votes of anyone other than pensioners.

Getting rid of stamp duty would really help here. It’s a terrible tax that punishes people for moving house. Sin taxes are supposed to apply to things we want to discourage whereas people frequently moving makes the most of the housing stock we have in this country and is in everyone’s interest.

House prices are high, yes. But it’s called the property ladder for a reason - most people will start off with something less than desirable and trade up. We bought our first flat (1 bed) in a crap area. Moved to a 2 bed semi in a slightly better area and are just about to close on a 4 bed in a really nice area - all of that has taken almost 20 years!

Definitely! It’s stamp duty that is stinging people and making it difficult to ‘climb the ladder’

I’m really pleased that’s worked for you, it just won’t be as viable anymore though. House prices are stagnating but very high. If they’re not gaining in value it’s going to be impossible to build equity and level up as you describe unless salaries for people drastically change, and not everyone’s fortunate enough that they will

Did you stretch yourself at any point? Because, in hindsight, that was the play.

not the average 'size' but if you're going by average price then yes it has always been the case that you can't skip the first few steps and go straight to the middle of the ladder.

Most people on the middle/average of the ladder have a combination of equity from their first properties and wages not just average wages.

Plus it's all location. 2xaverage wage in Sheffield/Newcastle/Swansea might be enough to get you a nice-ish house straightaway. 2xaverage wage in London, Oxford, Edinburgh might not.

Also if you were students 5 years ago then I assume you're still quite young.
Fairly normal not to jump straight into the middle of the housing ladder aged 26ish - that's why it's called a 'ladder' - there's an expectation your first house is either a do-er upper or a flat or in a dodgy area or a bit far out etc. B

It's never been the norm that just because you've got a steady wage you ca jump straight to a 3 bed (semi/)detached as your first home.

Let’s not forget increasing levels of WFH these days too. Some people don’t even have an office any more or can only go in once or twice a week.

You're absolutely spot on with the ever changing goalpost scenario!

Also now with even more insane prices, I can see why people balk at paying a fortune for that eg 1 bed flat in a dodgy area

People banging on about the 'property ladder' I'm really not sure it exists in a form that it once was a decade or so ago

Now I would think that buyers want to get their moving done in as few moves as possible- factor in stamp duty (this is just an exponential cost which will increase as price goes up) and moving costs/solicitor's fees.

I totally understand why a 30 something couple would be looking to buy more than a 1 bed 'starter home' in a crap area

OP I totally get it!