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AIBU?

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Original poster

...to be extremely angered by SS & Police?

57 replies

KeysUnlocked · 03/06/2023 20:39

Children 'living' in severe neglect - filthy, uninhabitable home (full of flies and fleas), no food in dirty fridge, nowhere to bathe, brush teeth etc. Danger hazards throughout house and parents both on weed and cocaine.

DCs removed by police I'm guessing on an EPO, but parents now "let off", to be told the DCs will be returned soon and no police charges?!

If you seen the home you would understand my frustration here but surely SS cannot just dismiss this? If so, I have lost all faith in the system ConfusedHmmSad

OP posts:
Somebodiesmother · 03/06/2023 21:24

How do you know these people? Have you been in their house?

Agapornis · 03/06/2023 21:49

Ignore @greenacrylicpaint, think she meant to post it on a thread relating to The Archers Grin

greenacrylicpaint · 03/06/2023 22:00

Agapornis · 03/06/2023 21:49

Ignore @greenacrylicpaint, think she meant to post it on a thread relating to The Archers Grin

<hangs head in shame>

WiddlinDiddlin · 03/06/2023 22:28

I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of the parents mouths. Standard BS will be that its a mistake, they'll be back soon, next week, tomorrow, whatever. It's all BS.

JustGeorgie · 03/06/2023 23:19

So these people are family members? Friends?

SuperbSummer2023 · 03/06/2023 23:25

nhsometime · 03/06/2023 21:05

It's not always the best option to remove children permanently, even if the circumstances are bad.

As long as there's no abuse, sometimes it's best to support parents to improve their habits/parenting and then return the children.

Like in the case of Finley Biden you mean??

SuperbSummer2023 · 03/06/2023 23:27

SuperbSummer2023 · 03/06/2023 23:25

Like in the case of Finley Biden you mean??

Show quote history

Bloody phone!! Boden

Grapewrath · 03/06/2023 23:32

Often in these cases they will safety plan- they will ensure the children stay with a relative until the family home is appropriate for their needs. Parents will often be given a deadline of day, a week to ensure the stuff are done and then they will complete an assessment of needs with the family.
it’s very traumatic for children to be removed from their home by police, especially if there is another solution available

Ilovetea42 · 03/06/2023 23:40

Ultimately ss have to work in the first instance to investigate, see if things within the home can be improved and the parenting or circumstances can be improved for the kids to stay there. If that can't happen then they should be removed however its a complex decision especially depending on the ages of the children. Once kids are over the age of 3 the chance they'll be placed in a suitable family drops by nearly 50%. Plus the care system is at absolute breaking point due to years of chronic underfunding from the tories so there are actually desperately few places for children to go to. It costs a small fortune for children to be put in a bnb and staffed 247 if there's no Foster home available and all children's home spaces are full. It's also not a suitable environment and creates more trauma for the child than one move. So it may be that they've been assessed as being in immediate need but not in immediate danger meaning ss have time to find them a placement while trying to assess the family dynamics properly. For all you know they've been given a time frame to sort things out by and will be subject to drugs testing on a regular basis. For children to be removed ss have to go to court and evidence that other options have failed which means they need to try the other options first. It's not as simple as just walking in and lifting children unless there's enough evidence of physical or sexual abuse to meet the courts threshold.

MargaretThursday · 03/06/2023 23:45

Smartiepants79 · 03/06/2023 20:48

‘They’ are telling people? You mean the neglectful parents whose children have been removed?
Do you believe them? I wouldn’t.
Also, even if they’re returned after certain criteria have been met it doesn’t mean that ss have left them to it.

Agreed.

I have heard all sorts from aggrieved parents in that situation. Children removed because they didn't put butter on their toast, or neighbours complained because I forgot to open my curtains once etc.
SS are very apologetic, but they made a little mistake which means they can't return the children immediately, but they should never have been removed is one I've heard several times. Along with SS turned up just after I'd changed a nappy and took the children on the basis of one nappy on the floor.

None of them has been true.

LifeIsPainHighness · 03/06/2023 23:47

When those conditions are considered better and safer for children than the care system, you know you live in a broken country. So sad. I just think of that poor baby who was killed after being returned to neglectful parents.

LifeIsPainHighness · 03/06/2023 23:49

KeysUnlocked · 03/06/2023 20:45

They are telling people that SS have said kids can come back as soon as home cleaned but apparently it's only that Police have "ticked the wrong box" Hmm that they'd be allowed home now!?

Show quote history

OK so due to an extended family matter I was supporting, I joined a FB group for families involved with social services.

The delusion and plain old bollocks people display would shock you.

The amount of times I read that children were removed ‘just because of a bit of clutter and because I didn’t hoover’ makes you think that our care system is just clamouring for more children. Or “All I did was tell them off and now they’ve been taken off Me”. People in this situation are trained liars and will do anything to make themselves look less bad than they are.

UndercoverCop · 03/06/2023 23:51

Don't believe the perpetrators for a start.
Also absolute nonsense from PPs that police are unable to charge with neglect. They absolutely can charge with offences relating to child cruelty, neglect and violence under the serious crime act 2015, as amended from the children and young person's act 1933. There are also other offences available depending on the circumstances.
It is correct that even without charge, child protection measures can still be implemented by children's social care.

LifeIsPainHighness · 03/06/2023 23:51

toddlermum27 · 03/06/2023 21:04

For families on the breadline this is a genuine concern - if the children are returning imminently the parents absolutely need to know their financial situation to ensure the children are provided for.

It's frankly a privileged comment to make out that it is unreasonable for parents to ask about/ to imply the parents only care about the children because of the benefits they receive.

Show quote history

I do agree with this. People on these benefits are not exactly loaded

Foxesandsquirrels · 04/06/2023 00:03

Social services weren't good at the best of times. It is absolutely dire now. Funding is absolutely gone.

Foxesandsquirrels · 04/06/2023 00:04

UndercoverCop · 03/06/2023 23:51

Don't believe the perpetrators for a start.
Also absolute nonsense from PPs that police are unable to charge with neglect. They absolutely can charge with offences relating to child cruelty, neglect and violence under the serious crime act 2015, as amended from the children and young person's act 1933. There are also other offences available depending on the circumstances.
It is correct that even without charge, child protection measures can still be implemented by children's social care.

Police can't charge with anything. They can only present the case to CPS.

UndercoverCop · 04/06/2023 00:06

You're wrong, police make the charging decisions in more than 60% of cases, it's only most serious offences referred to CPS for a decision

FoggyDew · 04/06/2023 00:10

JustGeorgie · 03/06/2023 20:42

What 'police charge' were you hoping for though?

It's SS job to sort

@JustGeorgie SS can’t just ‘sort’ stuff. What are they supposed to do?!

The police can remove children for a short time in an emergency and ss can assess and make recommendations, but they can’t just decide to keep the children! The parents have pr until a court says otherwise.

AnyaMarx · 04/06/2023 00:14

Your anger is misplaced.
Try redirecting it to the so called
Parents.

Police have powers to remove children under a PPO , thwn it's for social services to decide where they go

Were any arrests made re neglect ? That would go to cps for a charging decision

I'm going to hazards guess you're getting one side of a story that isn't necessarily the truth .

JustGeorgie · 04/06/2023 00:28

Yes I know @FoggyDew

BertyMyrtle · 04/06/2023 00:37

If the children haven’t been returned home within 72 hours, you can safely say the parents are lying, as SS have no power to keep the children for longer than that without parental consent or a legal order.

Georgeandzippyzoo · 04/06/2023 01:41

toddlermum27 · 03/06/2023 21:04

For families on the breadline this is a genuine concern - if the children are returning imminently the parents absolutely need to know their financial situation to ensure the children are provided for.

It's frankly a privileged comment to make out that it is unreasonable for parents to ask about/ to imply the parents only care about the children because of the benefits they receive.

Show quote history

l do agree it is a worry for parents want to ensure their children have their needs met. Especially when.on the breadline however these parents, if OP is correct, are spending their benefits on weed and cocaine and neglecting their children ie NOT meeting their needs.
it does my head in when parents claim they have no money but smoke/do drugs/drink have tattoos regularly, hair and beauty stuff done regularly in salons etc.

Original poster
KeysUnlocked · 04/06/2023 10:17

BertyMyrtle · 04/06/2023 00:37

If the children haven’t been returned home within 72 hours, you can safely say the parents are lying, as SS have no power to keep the children for longer than that without parental consent or a legal order.

Would this still be the case id they're temporarily with some family?

OP posts:
bellac11 · 04/06/2023 10:32

KeysUnlocked · 04/06/2023 10:17

Would this still be the case id they're temporarily with some family?

Show quote history

It could be that parents consent for the children to be in care or consent to making a family arrangement

There are so many whys and wherefores within safeguarding for children that unless you are actively working the case and see the evidence in front of your eyes and know the legislation around each of those decisions its impossible to say this or that happened

The police could well have recommended charges but are awaiting CPS, or they might have recommended charges, the children may have been removed under police powers, or SSD might have gone to court in the mean time

Save your anger for the parents

Stressfordays · 04/06/2023 10:46

Don't believe the parents. My ex swanned around for nearly 12 months pretending he didn't have a child abuse charge against him. It can take a while for these cases to go to court.

As for social services though, nothing surprises me with them.