Given notice at work

[Forgotwhat]

My work has given me my notice - 3 months and I’ve been there under two years-so I don’t have a leg to stand on.

I don’t desperately need the money-can I just go? I don’t really want to carry on working for them for another 3 months to hand things tidily over to other team members etc.

Basically I have set up a department and way of working for them, and now mostly the grunt work is done they want stuff taken over by cheaper members of staff (basically I am redundant with no redundancy rights) it’s all fine, I just don’t really want to spend three months training people how to do my job and showing them the tricks of the trade when they’ve decided to end my employment.

can I just say that’s absolutely fine, I don’t need a notice and I am happy to forgo that and leave today? I know if I give notice I have to work it- but this is different the decision to go isn’t mine-so I don’t feel I need to honour it?

I am not a lawyer or specialist in employee law but my understanding of the position is different to what many are stating, so maybe get a qualified professionals advice, but I believe you can leave when you want, as my former boss used to say there is no such thing as slave labor in this country you can never force someone to work for you, what they can do is not pay you for time you are not working, not give reference or cite this as examples of behaviors or reasons you were sacked - when clearly its not , the only issue you may have is that you cant work for someone else during this period, then you may be in breach of contract. So they cant make you show up for work but could stop you working elsewhere. You could be signed off for stress caused by what they have done, or you could say that your feel their actions have made your position untenable and the relationship has broken down and you cant work there any more. From employers perspective this would be a far worse scenario as they may have to pay you but you are not there , than if you agree to leave early.

That should only happen in specific circumstances though - redundancy is illegal if the bulk of the role still exists, and that certainly seems to be the case because despite only being obliged to give one weeks’ notice the employer is willing to pay the OP for three months while she trains other staff up. ACAS will be able to advise.

Do you have children or parents/grandparents?
You could request parental or carers leave - your parent suddenly feeling unwell and needing lots and lots of help covering the notice period?
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/carers-leave-from-employment/

This!!

Take all owed leave. Awful treatment

PILON is no longer tax free

What has been the wording?

I'm no legal expert or expert in employment law but my understanding is if they have said redundant then they are saying the role no longer exists. Therefore you have some leeway I would think to argue about leaving and not training new colleagues.

I know the 2 year rule means companies can just get rid but I'm thinking you just give your months notice or whatever by law and go. Don't make a huge effort to train new staff fully as they expected that to take 3 months and ensure they can't be trained to use the whole system.

But I'd be taking advice from ACAS or similar because I think there's a few things at play here.

As others have said, what would be their grounds for suing you if you went early? They've already stated that you/your position are no longer required. What if you find a new job with someone else and they need you to start in 3 weeks time (and won't wait 3 months)? Since it was their decision to dismiss you, I'd love to see their reasoning to legitimately prevent you from taking other permanent employment. In your position I would a) turn up for work but do my very best not to hand over any all of the necessary information, b) go to every interview I could (they cannot prevent you from doing this if they have dismissed you) and c) go as soon as possible once you get offered a job you're happy with regardless of how much notice is still left be that 11 or 3 weeks left.

There's never an excuse for being an asshole. You either have integrity or you don't.

As a matter of interest, hands up please.... all those people advising the OP to develop a sickness for three months (setting aside what that will look like when asked about their sickness absences), need parental leave, childcare leave, dependants leave and whatever else they can think up - am I correct in assuming that you either don't know the rules and/or risks about those actions, and that you all get full pay for taking as much time off work as you fancy? Which you don't know the OP will.

Being indignant on behalf of the OP is fine, but some of the advice - a lot of the advice - is very bad advice. It could and probably would rebound very badly on the OP. Because it's all very well saying that there is nothing the employer could or would do. But actually there is a lot they could do, whether or not they would. If people are going to advise someone to do something they really need to lay out the risks of that action so at least the OP understands what the risk is. Not reassure them that they can do wahetver they want because the employer can't touch them. Because the employer can touch them. And actions can come back to haunt you even a long time after the event. Maybe the OP won't need a reference from this employer in five years time. Or maybe they may need a security clearance that they never, ever anticipated, and need this employer to confirm their employment?

Although there isn’t an established legal system like gardening leave, one option which you could consider would be to go any have an open conversation about it with them.

I think that you could explain that you’re finding the idea of training people to replace you very very upsetting and stressful given that you’ve been given notice, and that you feel that it’s likely that the stress would make you too poorly to work if it’s pushed.

Explain that you want to leave things right and not just go off sick. And offer a shorter notice period with a written manual.

Bare in mind that they can force you to remain employed but realistically they can’t force you to train someone else. Worst case scenario they could technically sack you but they’d be crazy to do that if you’re already working notice and have offered to shorten it.

I was in a similar position, made redundant, put on notice and expected to train someone to take on my tasks. It helped that completely underestimated the training task and didn't instruct any of the team to actually seek the training they'd need.

I did the bare minimum that my job required, but I also pre-scheduled some automated tasks I was responsible for (if they'd known what I could have done with these tools I should have been escorted from the building and put on garden leave - my colleagues who knew were amazed they didn't) so that things would run smoothly for random amounts of time for different tasks. I resisted the urge to leave Easter Eggs on invoices, etc. I also found reasons to push back/pull forward a variety of meetings with external interested parties so they didn't fall within the most likely successor training period.

I took all the time they offered for job seeking, application writing, getting CV advice, interviews, etc.

I made sure I had copies of anything I had done that might be useful in the future, transferred some useful professional free subscriptions to my private email and home address.

There's not a lot you can do to get out of the notice period, but your employer now has very few sanctions available to make you do more than the bare minimum the role requires.

And you either have a sense of humour or you don’t.

Between annual leave and the 3 months notice, would it bring you up to 2 years?

I was in a similar situation years ago. I did what I thought was the right thing and worked my notice and did a proper handover.

If I had my time again I would have changed every password before I left on the Friday, called in on the Monday with a faked a family bereavement, then went to the GP to get singed off sick for stress.

You can’t add annual leave on as it’s paid in lieu. Only notice.

I’ve seen a couple of daft employers making their employees work their notice period which takes them over the two year line though so it does happen!

Is staff training part of your contract/job description? If not, you do the three months but not the training as its not part of your job.

@DogInATent Someone after my own heart! As I said earlier when it happened to me I built in processes that only someone with an extremely high level of knowledge would know which caused them huge problems. I love the way that you thought about it all so carefully and drip fed problems for them to face once you had left. Revenge is definitely best served cold. Do this OP - it will make you feel better and can't be construed as your 'fault'!

PS I had a similar situation but was over the two years (by two weeks). They wanted me to go immediately but had to give three months notice so I negotiated an extra payment. As others have said, changed my passwords, deleted my current projects/contacts and walked out the door.

I think I am covered for staff training by “other reasonable work as required”. I will speak with ACAS but legally I think I have to work it, unless I can get them to agree to release me earlier which I don’t think they will do. 3 moths notice takes me to 1 year 12 months, so I think they have been very specific in this.

1 year 11 months even!!

I like the going off sick idea. 😆

You don't look well, OP. I think you need a few weeks off.

Take some holiday and catch something and not go back

You do have options OP - depends how you wish to play this and how you feel.

decline to train. You don’t train staff normally.

handover document - decline. Agree to review the procedures. Agree with whatever is in them, or go the other way and bury them in detail, or if they don’t exist start writing them, but ensure they are perfection, and no doubt incredibly detailed and focussed on the things staff already know how to do.

still some Covid going round.

get offended and raise a greivance about absolutely anyone’s behaviour apart from those you have in your team.

appeal the redundancy. Ensure that even though you have no rights to an ET, yet, they should still follow their processes. If they fail to follow their processes, raise a greivance and decline to attend work whilst they investigate.

all of this can be very stressfull. Might be worth seeing a doc.

have your contract reviewed by a lawyer anyway. Yes the two year rule will apply, but there are exceptions.

get another job asap and if possible, get any references sorted asap, then walk out no notice.

Don’t give them any exscuses that could be minor and be factual into references. sick leave is one aspect that’s ok, but timekeeping is minor and not worth playing games with.

There is of course another angle which you could interpret from the CoE. They have given you notice, you respond to the notice letter In writing, and state that you release them from the notice period and wish them well. Keep a copy. The clause for notice periods is usually based around who services notice, it rarely includes anything about the requirement for staff to serve their notice.

Sadly, despicable companies like this exist. Make their life difficult as hell…. they don’t deserve you.

I’ve been in similar situations - some will accept the frank discussion that if they’ve made this decision, you accept it, but that you will only be working to your JD now. Nothing more. and that you feel your aggreived status is not going to help your team or any others.

Pthers - you just have to be a shit. One or two incidents usually help them understand, they have the power to terminate, but you aren’t someone who lies down. For instance, writing procedures is intensive and requires time, so who will be covering your role when you’re doing that.

Good luck.