Given notice at work

[Forgotwhat]

My work has given me my notice - 3 months and I’ve been there under two years-so I don’t have a leg to stand on.

I don’t desperately need the money-can I just go? I don’t really want to carry on working for them for another 3 months to hand things tidily over to other team members etc.

Basically I have set up a department and way of working for them, and now mostly the grunt work is done they want stuff taken over by cheaper members of staff (basically I am redundant with no redundancy rights) it’s all fine, I just don’t really want to spend three months training people how to do my job and showing them the tricks of the trade when they’ve decided to end my employment.

can I just say that’s absolutely fine, I don’t need a notice and I am happy to forgo that and leave today? I know if I give notice I have to work it- but this is different the decision to go isn’t mine-so I don’t feel I need to honour it?

Hell, just sign off sick. Mental stress their horrible treatment has put you under. Nothing they can do.

You say you haven't got a leg to stand on but that's not totally true.

You haven't mentioned if there are any protected characteristics involved. That would change everything.

It's clearly a complicated area, you could speak to your union or a lawyer. I've pasted a little bit of info below.

In conclusion, an employee with less than two years’ service does not qualify for ordinary unfair dismissal rights but they may still be able to make a claim for automatic unfair dismissal, discrimination and/or breach of contract and so caution is advised before you dismiss any employee.

Having a protected characteristic means you shouldn’t be subjected to any discrimination related to it.
It doesn’t give you protection against being let go for reasons other than this.
It’s not a forcefield surrounding you making you like Teflon in the workplace?

@Hannahsbananas did I say it was? No.

I suggested the op spoke to a lawyer or union.

Because if there is anything she hasn't mentioned here for eg she's pregnant, that would change everything.

can I just say that’s absolutely fine, I don’t need a notice and I am happy to forgo that and leave today

With due respect OP what you're suggesting doesn't take account that the employment contract is mutually agreed and benefits both sides. You may well think "I don't need notice" but your employer does and needs you to serve your notice to do a handover. Having a 3 month notice period gives you time to do a reasonable handover and seek new employment. Keeping things amicable is never a negative, you can't lose out by doing the right thing even if you feel hard done by.

You may take issue with this approach , and decide you want to sabotage it as posters on here have suggested, by getting signed off with "depression" or being passive aggressive by doing the bare minimum or giving ambiguous instructions to the junior staff to get back at them. Ask yourself what benefit that gives anyone by being bitter, unhelpful and taking it out on junior staff (it really isn't their fault or choice).

Do the right thing, leave with a clean record and don't burn your bridges. You'll get all sorts of crap "advice" on here but that because it isn't their life or their career prospects at risk here.

Exactly. EVERYONE has protected characteristics - age, sex, race, marital status etc by their very definition. It doesn’t mean you can sue on the back of it!

As an employment lawyer these threads honestly make me want to smash my head on the keyboard…

I agree with the advice to do the bare minimum if you can’t leave soon. When I was in a similar situation I took loads of time off for job interviews, went for dental and optician appointments in the middle of the day, took the cat for her jabs which took a whole afternoon, had a day off to get the boiler serviced etc etc.

Feel free.

As a lawyer, I'm a bit surprised you don't advise real life advice. It's possible the op hasn't given us a full picture here.

Would you care to explain what you mean by “real life advice”?

As an employer they’re running a hell of a risk to fire someone and then insist they work out their full 3 months notice. Jeez, that’s a hell of a lot of time for a disgruntled employee to do a lot of secret damage to your business. Rather stupid and naive of them.
I have a question- what were the grounds for your dismissal? Surely they had to give you some? Did they put these in writing?

if it is what you say that you’ve been bought in, set up wow etc and now the team is established they’re firing you and replacing you with cheaper labour, yet your contract is permanent, I’d be wording a pretty strong letter that you are taking legal advice on those reasons. Nowt more than that at this stage. But express you aren’t happy for the reasons given, you took a permentant contract, and your role has not disappeared, you’re not being made redundant, and you’ve had no performance issues.

That’ll let them know you aren’t going to take this with a shrug and never mind. And raise the spectre that they have a potential very disgruntled employee on their books for next 3 months. Don’t threaten them with anything about your work performance at all. At any time. But hopefully you raising that you’re not happy will make them think that placing you on garden leave after say 6 weeks, might just be sensible.

as people say, do only what’s in your contract. Don’t take on anything that’s not expressly written as your job description. Simply state I will not being talks now that aren’t in my job description. Work your exact hours even if it means leaving a meeting part way through or arriving late. Again, state that I have to focus on my future now and cannot afford to work uncontracted hours. Do the nearest minimal. At the minimum effort. Do not volunteer effort, knowledge, skills at any point. Do not be “helpful”, “kind” and all the other shit women are expected. Even if you like the individual. Do not make it your business to train the incompetent or slow learners. Deliver a set format training, once, and that’s it. If they don’t get it or ask for help, simply state that it’s better for them to learn how to do it themselves and use resources available like documentation, online etc and make a few mistakes along the way like you did, as you won’t be around for long and they’ll have to sort their own issues out then. Yep, they’ll be feedback about you not being “helpful”, but what do they expect and what can they do about that other than stop to think that this is the risk they took.

id also agree with others, it is better to try to find a job whilst still working. But on the other hand it is much easier to find work form effort point of view when not in work if you’re doing a niche or professional role- looking for work is a full time occupation .

if it comes to a head, say that you must focus on your future like any other human would in these circumstances, and that you are prepared for them to put you on garden leave, or be paid in lieu of notice. But don’t , at that stage, offer to compromise on notice period or payment in lieu. They’re treating you badly if the reasons given are truely the only reasons. And they’re being really dumb to think anyone would behave in a different way.

@MrsPinkCock as I said earlier. A lawyer or union. Someone able to establish if there is a bigger picture here.

Rather than rely on an Internet forum where anyone can claim to be anyone.

I would have thought the chances of them taking legal action against you, should you go early, are minimal and would be costly for them.

The key issue to my mind is whether they could cause problems with a bad reference etc.

And yes, in your shoes I think I would go tomorrow.

They’ve shown you little consideration, clearly and deliberately serving notice at the latest possible time before you are eligible for any kind of redundancy. With that, providing you don’t need their reference and they refuse to let you go sooner, I’d get a GP to sign you off sick, ideally for the remainder of your time with them. I don’t understand why so many people show so much loyalty to employers who would replace them at the drop of a hat.

You would be in breach of contract . This being said nothing can be done if you go on sick leave and they need to count that as working . Speak with a Gp tell them it’s stressing you massively maybe you can just stay home those months

Why would you expect a company to be honest?

The purpose of a company is to make money and act in the best interest of the shareholders.

I struggled with this when I was younger and thought things like “how dare they treat me like this”, “they should be honest” etc. When you realise and accept that they do not care and never will your life becomes so much simpler.

Taking the emotion out of work has been so freeing. I have so much more mental energy.

@daisychain01 the contract may be mutual, but on the employer side there are a number of tools that they may use to end employment early, regardless of if the other party wants them used or not. For instance the employer could serve notice and put you on gardening leave even if the employee wanted to close off relationships outside of the business professionally. What I wanted to know was if there is anything similar on the other side of the fence.

thanks for all the comments, and support. I’ll speak with ACAS. I basically enjoyed my job, and now can’t be arsed to go into work for three months and play nice with a bunch of two faced arseholes. 🤣

You're clearly experienced and confident and don't desperately need the money, so in your shoes I'd consider emailing over the weekend saying you'd like to leave with immediate effect to pursue other options, heavily implying
that there was someone else interested / you had offers of contracting work. I might say that I'd like next Friday off for an interview and I'd also say that I was consulting an employment lawyer in order that I fully understood my position. (I probably wouldn't actually consult a lawyer). I'd hope this would make it clear that I wasn't going to roll over quietly. If they're not open to negotiation I'd probably walk away immediately — but it depends on how much the lack of a reference would affect you. I know that good IT people are in such demand that in many cases it wouldn't matter much.

Unless you're trained as a trainer you're not in a good position to train others. Designing this system you'll have done certain things without thought as a result of years of accumulated knowledge. When it comes to training you'd need to start from the ground up. I'd state this in writing, adding that they've already said that they have no one with the capacity or knowledge to train up for holiday cover. They can't expect current staff to get up to speed in just three months (that are likely to include a lot of holiday leave). I'd put all this in writing so that when you leave and things go wrong, you can point to your email and say you warned them.

If you need a reference and decide you have to stay, do what experienced people here have suggested. Play the system like your employer has. Work to rule and use leave, childcare leave if appropriate, sick days and days for interviews* to bugger up the training/ manual-writing process. Let your day-to-day work pile up and then cancel training days in order to catch up. 'Accidentally' assign training sessions for days when key trainees are away on holiday, then cancel and have difficulty rescheduling. Leave them with semi-trained staff who don't know what they don't know, a manual with a holes in it and a few glitches in the system that will need only arise attention after you've left. I recommend a badly sprained ankle/ torn ligament incurred when you were out running/ playing tennis/ doing HIT training as a good way of getting to wfh for a few weeks, and a GP appointment, Minor Injuries Unit trip, physio or chiropractic most working days.

Good luck. You sound like a capable, reasonable person and you deserved better than this employer.

*there seems to be some disagreement about whether you're allowed time off for interviews if you haven't been there two years, but I'd suggest you presume this is your right and force them to prove it isn't.

It’s totally at their discretion so I think you should just ask them for a shorter notice.
I’ve done it and I just highlighted the benefits to them.
you’ll have to sell the idea to them.

I’m worst case just ‘quiet quit’. Only work contracted hours. Ignore all contact outside of that time. Do nothing proactive except what you are asked to do. Take full contractual breaks etc.

Hi, not a nice way to reward innovators is it? Can you go over your bosses head to their line manager and point out all the innovations you’ve made which made your job easy to manage? You would think that smart company leaders would want to hang on to someone with those capabilities. I wouldn’t be surprised if your boss has taken credit for your work, nor would I be surprised if your boss wants rid of you because they see you as a threat. If this approach brings you no joy then start looking asap. Your obligations to your company with regards to notice period might be different from theirs towards you. Not sure though, so check your contract.

Going on garden leave is an opportunity and a benefit for the employee to be released to seek new employment, it isn't a bad thing. For whatever reason they've decided you aren't in their plans so they're exercising their contractual obligation by keeping to the notice period.

In answer to your question, the employee's 'tool' is that of clever negotiation, so both sides come away with a benefit.

Eg, You could try negotiating a shorter notice period, as a 'tool' on your side of the contract, which would be better achieved by giving them a time-boxed plan of exactly what you commit to achieving and by when, rather than being resentful and begrudging, which could cause them to cling on to you longer than if you maintain some goodwill. So you could send your manager an email stating you'll (for example):

1. Provide x hours per day/week of handover training to x staff (name them), including an opportunity for feedback from the staff to indicate they're happy with the training provided;
2. Provide the team with a User guide/business process stored in xyz location - if this is already available, state this, as it's one less thing to do;
3. Support for ad hoc queries throughout the weeks you are in post.

you could estimate the above as being achievable in, say, 6 weeks total, which is half what your contractual notice period is, a win for both you and your employer. As you mentioned you don't "need" the cash, so leaving early won't be a problem to you and they save on 6 weeks' pay. Notice periods can be excessively long (sometimes for no real benefit) and there's no harm in asking for earlier release if you have a viable exit strategy.

I'm going to be controversial here, but if you're as good as you say you are on this thread (I'm not doubting you, just saying), the above will be a breeze and you could be out the door a lot sooner, with good will and professional reputation intact.

As I said upthread you could go rogue and breach your contract earlier than agreed with your employer, but I would never recommend anyone does that. It could tarnish your reputation, which is difficult to recover from if you care about your career.

ACAS advice will be limited to your employment rights in law, which I expect will amount to some variation of what I've suggested (I.e. negotiate an earlier release). They could also say "you could just walk away and leave them to it, they probably won't sue" fair enough, but that would be an opinion and a risk, and not necessarily a wise thing to do.

I hope you get what you want from a bad situation.

Does your contract include training other people. If not just do bare minimum then eff off. They have completely taken the piss out of you. I would do the same to them. Or just go off sick and put your feet up.

If it’s a redundancy you entitled to time off for job hunting during your notice period. So milk that.
Acas website is a good resource for more Rhaphidophora tetraspermamini monstdetails of this.
Call ACAS or citizens advice, they will tell you exactly what you are entitled to.

If you are really close to your two years, remember that the two years goes from when you started to the end of your employment. Now there is usually a contractual term that allows them to pay you in lieu of notice, and terminate employment immediately to get around this. If they are insisting on you working your notice and it takes you over two years then they have shot both their own feet off. Go along with it, but threaten to sue for unfair dismissal once you have hit 24 months should earn you a nice juicy settlement that makes you feel much happier.

It's not a redundancy and what a mini Monstera plant has to do with things I don't know.