Freedom passes no longer completely free.

[SweetiePi3]

During lockdown, people with freedom passes were not allowed to use tfl transport before 9.30 am. This took away their right to be used 24 hours. Since lockdown this has not been revoked. Do tfl think that people with a freedom pass never need to travel before that, whatever the reason?

If you're in receipt of certain benefits you can take proof with you or email it to the ward/clinic admin of where ever you're having to visit if it's a medical appointment and they can reimburse you in cash.

There'll be advice as to what benefits on the NHS website.

Really bizarre comparison. 60 and over make up around 20% of my company easily. Hardly comparable to flat earthers to suggest a lot of 60 year olds are still working as state pension doesn’t start for another number of years.

It's always been off peak after 9.30 am even before covid times. Why they offer it free at peak time. Yabu.

There are two types of passes in London for over 60s: the oyster 60+ which is for people in London boroughs from the age of 60 until retirement age which used to be valid for 24 hours a day, this is the card that tfl changed during covid to not being valid until after 9am. Once you reach retirement age, the oyster 60+ card is cancelled and you have to apply for a freedom Pass which is valid after 9.30am and always has been. This card is available nationwide. This is what applied to me when I lived in london

I work for TfL on the tube abd have done for 20+ years. Here are my thoughts and knowledge on the matter.

For a few years before the pandemic in 2020 all Freedom pass holders could use their cards at any time on TfL services. This is because Boris Johnson,(who was Mayor at the time) said it wasn't fair that older people had to pay to get to hospital appointments. The OP is correct.

BUT the Freedom pass isn't funded by TfL it's funded by London Councils. Initially the ban before 9am (not 9.30) was to reduce traffic on the TfL network to reduce risk during the pandemic. However, since the risk eased councils were given less and less money from Central Government they had to keep the ban in place to save cash. It has nothing to do with TfL's crap bargaining with the DfT.

In my opinion most 60 year olds in London work be it in low-paid occupations all the way up to executive roles. So I think the minimum age should be raised to 65. It's galling to see some working 60 year olds who are obviously wealthy get free travel whilst customers on average wages have to pay (and season tickets are flipping expensive too).

At my area of stations, the Twirlies will turn up at any time from 8.30am onwards and wait on the unpaid side until the click ticks over to 9am then they all rush forward to the gate. Sometimes we get 20+ people waiting, and they moan about waiting to each other. It's the same faces day in, day out. I work in a wealthy suburb, like, £5m pound houses and posh shops on the main street, most of the kids go to private school, and these people reek of entitlement. It must be different in other parts of London where having free travel is a lifeline but where I am I think means-testing wouldn't be a bad idea.

Finally a load of Freedom passes were cancelled last year because TfL found a lot of older people who lived mainly in foreign countries but kept a house in London were claiming the Freedom pass. We had loads of older people coming back from their winter in the South of France or wherever and finding out their pass was invalidated. That caused arguments. All I could do was ask them to ring up the relevant number to sort it out. They should have got emails confirming their main residence was in London but some ignored it or didn't think it was important so lost the benefit.

I retired one month before my 70th birthday; I knew people there who were older, one was 74.

@TheCyclingGorilla

the Twirlies will turn up at any time from 8.30am

What is a 'Twirly'?

I agree with post 9.30am start. TfL have struggled financially. All my various medical appointments at London hospitals have offered a choice of time.

Those who arrive before the permitted start time, only to be told they're too early. It's a play on words.

Things have changed since covid. Tfl need to save money to survive. Over 60s get subsidised travel but it isn't completely free as you need to pay if travel at peak times. That seems very fair to me. Loads of over 60s have way more money than those in their 20s. My boss is 62, earns about £200k a year and yet he doesn't have to pay to use public transport.

Many pensioners ride buses to keep warm, their choices are between eating and heating.

If he can get something for free, why not?

So many people have commented that 9.30 was always there, but that was not my experience. People could travel anywhere within the Tfl network for free with a Freedom pass before 9.30.

Glad someone else remembers this name. Dad used to say he’d passed all the Twirlies at the bus stop on his way to buy his morning paper

Excellent and informative post from @TheCyclingGorilla

OP you should give that a read as that explains where the confusion may come from

It kinda feels like you don’t want any kind of response or opinion that differs to your own OP, all of your replies are argumentative and you seem so offended by anyone who shares an alternative view.

sorry your pass doesn’t work when you’d like it to most, what else can we say? 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm in London, my DH has a freedom pass and he's fine with this, as are other people I know. It's still a great perk and gives lots of freedom. On the odd occasion you might need to use the bus before 9.30 it's £1.65 for a bus fare wherever you go in London and includes changes. That's not unreasonable.

YABU. That’s absolutely fair.

It is ironic that you'd call something a "Freedom Pass" then put a load of restrictions on it.

“A load of restrictions”

One restriction.

Exactly. If you think the freedom pass is restrictive then you obviously haven't tried travelling on public transport outside of London.

Freedom Pass in London is from 09.00 on weekdays, for the buses and tubes, but 09.30 on the trains. At weekends and bank holidays it's any time.

Did you have a freedom pass before 2009?

Well, thank you all for your informative comments. I knew that I was entitled to a freedom pass aged 60. I realise the privilege that this gives me, and want to thank those who make this possible.

What are those needs that can't be later in the day (other than hospital appointments)?

If you need the dentist, chiropodist etc you can make an appointment for later in the day. If you want to go shopping or the library you can go later in the day. And I imagine that most hobbies aimed at the over 60s start later in the day to accommodate the 9.30 threshold. If they don't, you can ask them if they can start a bit later.

Yes, retired people do have all day to ride around. And the over 60s who aren't retired and still working, can afford to pay for their outward trip.