Freedom passes no longer completely free.

[SweetiePi3]

During lockdown, people with freedom passes were not allowed to use tfl transport before 9.30 am. This took away their right to be used 24 hours. Since lockdown this has not been revoked. Do tfl think that people with a freedom pass never need to travel before that, whatever the reason?

Not sure if you've noticed, but not every person over 60 has £3m.

@SgtBilko

"Entitled? She has had something taken away that was available before. The people that use the freedom passes also pay for it through council tax, some of which goes towards it. You’ll get it when it is your turn and you’ll be grateful for it. A lot of pensioners are not very well off. You only have to go onto any facebook pensioners thread and you will see that. The state pension is £800 a month. A month! A lot of people only have that to live on."
I strongly predict that by the time I get to 60, the age of eligibility for a freedom pass will have gone up just like the age of retirement has.
With regard to OP, YABU. You are lucky enough to get free travel most of the time. So what if you have to pay for one journey.

Just pay for it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Pretty sure the age will be moved out soon as young people will have to work much longer.

@Kiwano of course I know not everyone has that. But the people arguing for it often do.

It'll be this. Public transport is rammed as it is. Fair enough.

Absolutely this.

I won't get my bus pass until I reach retirement age at 67.
Yet you are moaning about a very logical and sensible restriction to yours? A restriction that has always been in place in my City, for pretty clear and obvious reasons.

YABVVVVVU

How lucky they have so much money - others aren't as fortunate!

But they were allowed before 9.30 up to 2020 without all these dire consequences happening.

Only since 2009. Before that there was always a morning restriction.

Morning rush hour is most pressured because school children and workers travel at much the same time.

I have disabled bus pass ( not obvious disability), don’t work, early retirement 61, never used my bus pass before 9.30

Meanwhile in the rest of the country people have always been restricted to free bus pass only over state retirement age and off peak travel. If there are actually any buses to use that is. TfL have financial problems, not surprising the amount of unnecessary concessions they were giving!

I agree it’s great - it’s beyond great, absolutely mind blowingly incredible. I would LOVE it to be available to children not lucky enough to already live in London.

I cannot understand why TFL is still offering the Freedom pass to over 60s - my local authority has raised the qualifying age in line with the retirement age (66), which seems completely logical given the incredible strain on budgets now.

What makes me seethe is that TFL is choosing to plug the enormous gap in its finances by charging those who live on the borders of the London area who cannot afford newer cars - the ULEZ expansion. I live 2 miles from the border - my hospital, shopping centre, railway station all lie within the London border. I pay more in rates than similar homes in most London boroughs, but I will not be able to use the roads to access these services after August without spending £££ on a newer car while massive, more polluting cars are allowed to do so.

Furthermore, TFL currently gives Freedom passes to more than 55,000 friends and family of TFL workers.

Train fares from this area just outside the London boundary are extortionate - 2 miles down the road there is Oyster, a capped daily charge, Freedom passes and it feels like our fares are subsidising it all. And in August London will be dipping into the wallets of those living just outside who can least afford it via the ULEZ expansion.

So I think YABU in complaining that 60 year olds can't use the trains for free before 9.30

Infuriating, I’m sorry @Helleboring

@SweetiePi3 not getting quite the responses you expected, OP? I hope your silence is a sign of some needed self-reflection..!

It's not a "race to the bottom" at all. Discounts in many sectors are restricted at peak times, in order to manage demand. That's why cinemas had "Orange Wednesdays", not "Orange Saturdays".

There is also a 16-17 railcard that is half-fare with no minimum. Works on season tickets too. Unfortunately Scotrail don't accept it. Obviously it's no use once you turn 18.

If their only income is the state pension, then they aren't working and are therefore far less likely to need to travel at peak times.

Yabu. London transport is super cheap compared to everywhere else. To get into the main town near me 15mins is £5 on bus or £7 on train 1 stop. In London it would cost £1.75. My kids train pass to high school will be 850 a year, 450 if you use the kcc bus pass instead. London all school kids free. It wasn't before, not sure why everything is subsidised.

It was after 9.30 when I lived in London 20+ years ago. When the rest of the country could pay 50% on bus fares after 9.30.

I can remember when it first came in there were restrictions in the afternoon from 4-7pm to allow workers to travel home.

The over 60s are individuals, not a homogenous group. Judging then all by your in laws is simply ridiculous. I'm 67 and although I don't need the bus pass that my LA offered from last year, I have many friends and acquaintances who live in the state pension and very much do need it.

OP you’re coming across as very entitled. Londoners through an additional amount added to their council tax through the Greater London Authority, local businesses paying higher business rates, other TFL commuters, Santander bike riders, ULEZ and congestion charge drivers are all paying for your ticket. For those of you interested, see TFL funding sources below.

Funding sources:

Fares income. Fares are the single largest source of our income and help to cover the costs of operating and improving our transport services. Decisions on whether to change fare levels are made each year by the Mayor, after consultation with TfL.

Other operating income. We generate income from the Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone and other road network compliance charges. These charges support policies around London's roads, including reducing harmful emissions and congestion.
Commercial activities that generate income include advertising, property rentals and property sales as well as third-party sponsorship for Santander Cycles and the IFS Cloud Cable Car. Collectively, these sources of income are around one third the amount we raise from fares.

Grants are received from central and local government. The main sources are:

• Business Rates Retention - funded from a proportion of local business rates and paid to us from the GLA. This is the largest source of grant income to TfL
• GLA precept - funded from Council Tax receipts and set annually by the Mayor
• Crossrail funding from the GLA which goes towards completing the infrastructure for the Elizabeth line
• Other capital grants, for example from the Housing Infrastructure Fund. These grants fund specific projects where we have agreements with other funding bodies, including central government

And lots of people under 60 can’t afford it. Sadly that’s just life.

It’s infuriating that so many people used to get free transport just because they were 60 when most of them were still working. If anyone should be getting free transport it should be under 30s who statistically earn less and are being ripped of by private landlords.

Wherever I've lived (outside London) it's always been the case that senior citizens' free travel doesn't start till after 9:30 and also that you have to be state pension age to get it, not just over 60.

My elderly parents joke about the 'twirlies' - the other folk who always are on the first bus after 9:30 with them ('too earlies' - as they have to wait at the bus stop if they are there before 9:30).

There are, rightly, different rules for disabled travellers.

I'm not sure why London should be any different from other parts of the UK.

Exactly. I can't use my bus pass before 930am but if I show it, I'll get kids fare. A 10 minute journey is £1.40.

I can get a train to the next county which is about 5 minutes. That's £2.50 with a Railcard.

We also don't have the hopper fare where you can travel on the bus as much in an hour for £1.75.