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Original poster

Did you do a double think on the grammar here?

116 replies

Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 10:06

My 7 yr old was reading the "blub" as she calls it on the back of her reading book and tells me that her teacher said this was wrong, that it should be "strongest". I'm afraid my eyebrows couldn't get any higher on my head and my mouth dropped. But maybe my expectations are too high?
I'm 52 and in primary didn't get taught much grammar but I knew this...
Not a teaching bashing thread just a v surprised mum and I know most mums of 7 yr olds are younger so just looking for perspective really.

Did you do a double think on the grammar here?
OP posts:
CoffeeCantata · 31/05/2023 10:39

So depressing. I'm a former teacher (retired - in both secondary and primary) and I was shocked at the lack of not just subject knowledge but intellectual curiosity among my colleagues at one school. At a staff meeting all the teachers admitted they didn't know what was meant by the 'theme' of a book. The designated Literacy co-ordinator was doing a topic on books and publishing and wrote the following words on the board: auther, copywrite, blerb. I agonised about whether to quietly point this out (I wasn't going to be popular - she was the sort who is never wrong) but felt someone had to.

I know that I'm coming over as a horror - but I assure you I'm not - I'm massively sympathetic to what teachers have to put up with nowadays in terms of workload and pressure. I was always a supportive colleague and got on well with staff. I know that I was educated in a different time with different expectations. But the one thing I couldn't empathise with (and couldn't ever talk about) was the lack of intellectual interests, wide reading or curiosity about the world which I encountered amongst some colleagues. It's a vital aspect of teaching, I would argue.

WonkyFeelings · 31/05/2023 10:45

Non native English speaker here. Agree with stronger for two, strongest for three or more.

But “who is the stronger” sounds weird to me, I would say “who is the stronger one” or “who is stronger”.

I have no grammar rule to justify this.

ClaraThePigeon · 31/05/2023 10:45

Yes OP. Double think is when you initially question yourself, so you have to think about it again. Double take has to do with sight.

I have never heard the term before unless it's written as one word and I can't find many uses of the term by Googling. I wonder if it's regional?

Original poster
Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 10:47

ClaraThePigeon · 31/05/2023 10:33

Interesting. I've never heard that term before unless used in an Orwellian context when it's written as one word.

🤣I wasn't expecting that bit to be overthought! It's just how it was in my head.

OP posts:
Original poster
Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 10:52

CoffeeCantata · 31/05/2023 10:39

So depressing. I'm a former teacher (retired - in both secondary and primary) and I was shocked at the lack of not just subject knowledge but intellectual curiosity among my colleagues at one school. At a staff meeting all the teachers admitted they didn't know what was meant by the 'theme' of a book. The designated Literacy co-ordinator was doing a topic on books and publishing and wrote the following words on the board: auther, copywrite, blerb. I agonised about whether to quietly point this out (I wasn't going to be popular - she was the sort who is never wrong) but felt someone had to.

I know that I'm coming over as a horror - but I assure you I'm not - I'm massively sympathetic to what teachers have to put up with nowadays in terms of workload and pressure. I was always a supportive colleague and got on well with staff. I know that I was educated in a different time with different expectations. But the one thing I couldn't empathise with (and couldn't ever talk about) was the lack of intellectual interests, wide reading or curiosity about the world which I encountered amongst some colleagues. It's a vital aspect of teaching, I would argue.

Yes I agree about the lack of curiosity and intellectual interests. It's something my parents deemed extremely important and demonstrated it by example.

OP posts:
Original poster
Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 10:54

ClaraThePigeon · 31/05/2023 10:35

I may just have forgotten alot!

Is anyone else thinking the same thing that I am?

I'm not teaching 7 year olds facts are wrong though am I?

OP posts:
Lidlpopdrinker · 31/05/2023 10:56

The teacher is wrong. Make sure you teach your child correctly. I didn’t care what the teacher said to mine, if what they said was wrong I corrected it and told the DC to send the teacher to me if they had an issue.

My eyes spin at some of the written communications I get from my DC teachers. How some of them managed to pass GCSE English is beyond me, let alone convince a university to admit them, then complete a degree.

PriOn1 · 31/05/2023 10:59

CharlottenBurger · 31/05/2023 10:38

Ah. What we were taught. Using a superlative (e.g. 'biggest'), for one of two items has been in continuous & widespread use for centuries. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage refers to objections to this as 'a perfect shibboleth, serving no practical function except to separate those who observe the rule from those who do not.'.

If you refer to something as the best of the pair, rather than the better, the only 'rule' you are breaking is one of usage (read: opinions), and not of grammar (the structure of the language).

Technically, the teacher was incorrect to say that “the stronger” is wrong, however using “the strongest” when comparing two things would be more widely used and therefore saying it is incorrect is too harsh. If usage changes then what is considered correct will eventually change with it.

I think the teacher ought to check very carefully before criticizing published books, especially educational ones. I would assume they’re written and edited carefully by people whose job it is to know those things. I’m not saying that errors never creep in, but I’d be inclined to check my own knowledge first, given that grammar was quite poorly taught when I was at school.

Difficult though. I would perhaps expect primary school teachers to be fairly well educated, but I also know a lovely young woman who is retraining to be a teacher. I don’t think her grammar is perfect, but I do think her wonderful kindness and down to earth attitude mean that I would be happy for her to teach my children and I think they would enjoy school and therefore learn well. My son had a maths teacher a few years back. She had a PhD and was undoubtedly very clever, but couldn’t teach my struggling son at all as she couldn’t get down to his level.

Original poster
Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 11:02

Lidlpopdrinker · 31/05/2023 10:56

The teacher is wrong. Make sure you teach your child correctly. I didn’t care what the teacher said to mine, if what they said was wrong I corrected it and told the DC to send the teacher to me if they had an issue.

My eyes spin at some of the written communications I get from my DC teachers. How some of them managed to pass GCSE English is beyond me, let alone convince a university to admit them, then complete a degree.

Thank you. I did actually tell her to tell the teacher mummy says it's correct. I agree re the communications. But my Mother in law ( 85 )was a school secretary forever and has always said the same re teachers written communications.

OP posts:
JulieHoney · 31/05/2023 11:05

It's a correct usage, if a little old fashioned. The teacher is talking rubbish.

@ClaraThePigeon , Yes, I am!

W0tnow · 31/05/2023 11:07

Still, wait till your child excitedly tells you which soccer /netball/rugby team they are ‘versing’ on the weekend! 😐

piedbeauty · 31/05/2023 11:07

ArdeteiMasazxu · 31/05/2023 10:08

Stronger is correct for a comparison between two. You can use strongest if the comparison is between 3 or more.

This.

peacelemon · 31/05/2023 11:07

The teacher should have done a quick Google before assuming it was wrong. What a wally.

peacelemon · 31/05/2023 11:08

W0tnow · 31/05/2023 11:07

Still, wait till your child excitedly tells you which soccer /netball/rugby team they are ‘versing’ on the weekend! 😐

It took me a while to even work that one out

CharlottenBurger · 31/05/2023 11:09

piedbeauty · 31/05/2023 11:07

This.

Show quote history

That's just a fake 'rule' that is nothing to do with grammar.

peacelemon · 31/05/2023 11:09

PriOn1 · 31/05/2023 10:59

Technically, the teacher was incorrect to say that “the stronger” is wrong, however using “the strongest” when comparing two things would be more widely used and therefore saying it is incorrect is too harsh. If usage changes then what is considered correct will eventually change with it.

I think the teacher ought to check very carefully before criticizing published books, especially educational ones. I would assume they’re written and edited carefully by people whose job it is to know those things. I’m not saying that errors never creep in, but I’d be inclined to check my own knowledge first, given that grammar was quite poorly taught when I was at school.

Difficult though. I would perhaps expect primary school teachers to be fairly well educated, but I also know a lovely young woman who is retraining to be a teacher. I don’t think her grammar is perfect, but I do think her wonderful kindness and down to earth attitude mean that I would be happy for her to teach my children and I think they would enjoy school and therefore learn well. My son had a maths teacher a few years back. She had a PhD and was undoubtedly very clever, but couldn’t teach my struggling son at all as she couldn’t get down to his level.

Show quote history

Yes I agree. It is a published book so the teacher needed to use some thinking here..

Jacopo · 31/05/2023 11:10

Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 10:54

I'm not teaching 7 year olds facts are wrong though am I?

Show quote history

I think Clara was referring to “alot”.

ClaraThePigeon · 31/05/2023 11:11

The main point is that you are not being unreasonable.

Original poster
Awumminnscotland · 31/05/2023 11:14

JulieHoney · 31/05/2023 11:05

It's a correct usage, if a little old fashioned. The teacher is talking rubbish.

@ClaraThePigeon , Yes, I am!

For all you lovely pedants out there, I do see the green lines come up when I'm typing so sometimes that tells me there's something incorrect and sometimes I know anyway. But...I'm soo rock nd roll I just.... ignore it! I know right!!

OP posts:
SusiePevensie · 31/05/2023 11:20

I'm not sure. Rule is as per above, but 'the strongest' sounds right. I wonder if I'm reading in an implicit 'of them all'?

piedbeauty · 31/05/2023 11:30

@CharlottenBurger - I disagree. Cambridge Dictionary says:

When there are just two members in a group, traditionally, we use the comparative (stronger). However, in informal situations people often use the superlative (strongest):
Who is younger, Rowan or Tony? (traditional usage)
Jan and Barbara are both tall, but Jan’s the tallest. (more informal)

This is a formal situation - a published book aiming to teach young children to read, so it should include formal grammar rules. So the book is correct.

peacelemon · 31/05/2023 11:36

Even if it could be strongest it doesn't mean stronger is wrong. That teacher should be told and I hope they apologise.

CharlottenBurger · 31/05/2023 11:38

piedbeauty · 31/05/2023 11:30

@CharlottenBurger - I disagree. Cambridge Dictionary says:

When there are just two members in a group, traditionally, we use the comparative (stronger). However, in informal situations people often use the superlative (strongest):
Who is younger, Rowan or Tony? (traditional usage)
Jan and Barbara are both tall, but Jan’s the tallest. (more informal)

This is a formal situation - a published book aiming to teach young children to read, so it should include formal grammar rules. So the book is correct.

Well, you have your Cambridge, and I have my Merriam-Webster. I'm sure the world will keep turning.

piedbeauty · 31/05/2023 11:44

@CharlottenBurger Well, you have your Cambridge, and I have my Merriam-Webster. I'm sure the world will keep turning.

Why are you using a US dictionary for the UK? BIzarre decision. There are plenty of UK dictionaries. (And there's no need to be so snarky, ffs.)

CharlottenBurger · 31/05/2023 11:46

Personally when watching an arm-wrestling match, I expect it to show who is the stronger of the two contestants.