to believe my friend is in an abusive relationship?

[ArtemisW]

Hi all,
New member here, please be gentle with me. I have a friend I’m increasingly worried about and I’d be really grateful for any advice or input from you. I’m reaching a point where I feel unable to continue to pretend that this stuff is “normal.” My friend is on her 3rd marriage and her first two husbands abused her. I don’t know the details but think they were physically abusive. She is massively into the 50:50 lifestyle and she has low self-esteem. Her current husband (#3) is in his late 30s but he had never had a girlfriend or even been out on a date EVER before getting with my friend. He refuses to do any form of work, despite being educated to post-grad level, and he just sits at home while my friend works super long hours and has to give him spending money and pay ALL the bills. Her husband says he is too “emotionally-sensitive” to work and that he wants to focus on “curating his wardrobe” and pursuing his hobbies.

Her husband has an intense fear of Covid and this has resulted in him banning my friend from entering ANY building unless she is wearing a special industrial-strength mask. She is not allowed to go into a coffee shop or restaurant to meet a friend or for a business-client meeting. She is not even allowed to go into her work office (fortunately for him her employer allows her to work totally from home). Her husband doesn’t “allow” her to use trains unless it’s 100% essential as he doesn’t want her to be in close proximity to other people.

I am scheduled to meet my friend for brunch today. I asked her how she will eat brunch with a mask on and she’s said that her husband has given her permission to enter a restaurant or cafe today as long as she keeps the mask on from the second she enters the restaurant until she’s back outside, and that she’s happy to just sit there with her mask on and not order anything, while I eat.

I’ve reached my limit at being able to pretend that any of this is really normal or healthy.

Thoughts?

She has already had 2 marriages end, so she knows that she can leave.

I would say, just be there for her- be fun and maybe offer to see her little more. She may need reminding what fun is, and that she has a good support network. She might already be planning to leave?

im in the process of leaving my partner- it’s taking bloody ages- and it is so so lonely. Just be a good friend- it will be so much easier to see what a shit he is if she is happy and secure.

having 2 abusive relationships end does not mean she will be able to recognise the abuse in her current relationship and know she can leave. If she has had 2 physically abusive relationships then finding one without that can make her think this relationship is a lot healthier then what it is. She may not recognise the level of control he is exerting over her.

That's a good point that she has already managed to leave two abusive marriages. I have this feeling that I'm enabling her husband's controlling by pretending it's all OK and normal. I've never once asked, "Are you OK with his demands?" or commented that it's unusual or anything.

@Notanotheruser111 I think you've hit the nail on the head and that is of the mindset "well at least he doesn't beat me up."

I feel kind of icky for continually pretending that her husband's increasingly intense rules and demands are OK and no biggie.

Neither of you will be able to pretend her watching you eat brunch whilst she isn't allowed to do so is normal.

This is absolutely batshit. Why are you pretending it's normal? Ignoring this abuse is not helping anyone.!

You have to say something. She’s become immune to his absolutely bonkers (and frankly scary behaviour). I know it’ll be hard to broach but you must. The fact she’s meeting you for brunch but can’t actually eat is awful. She’s a grown woman who should be free to live her life. Good luck!

Can you suggest eating brunch outdoors? Would that help her to the extent that she would feel "safe"?
I wonder if she is going along with what her husband says or whether she agrees with his stance.
It doesn't sound like a healthy situation at all, but she may feel with 2 previous marriages behind her this has to be third time lucky. She may feel he's protecting her. I think you need to tactfully sound out how she sees the situation.

I'd use this brunch as sn opportunity to discuss your concerns, to let her know that you'll always be there for her, to help her where appropriate and to reinforce to her that not all domestic abuse is physical, that it can come in many forms - this sounds like coercive and financial control. Be prepared for her to make excuses and defend him. She may be so conditioned to being controlled, she doesn't recognise it for what it is.
As an aside, if he was so scared of germs etc, surely he'd be objecting to her going to work too (unless she's 100% home-based - but I guess that would mean him getting a job to pay the bills.
On the plus side, he must look fucking dandy the amount of time he spends curating his wardrobe...all paid for by his lovely wife, of course.

"Too emotionally sensitive to work" is a mighty fancy spelling of "is bone-idle layabout" and also your friend does not need permission from anyone to undertake normal social activities.

I'm sorry, OP. This must be very difficult to watch.

i don’t think you need to pretend it’s normal. Just be gentle and non judgemental in what you say. Just watch out for the ‘he said you say that comments’ or ‘you don’t understand me and abusive dick’ as it will indicate he’s working on isolating her.

@Motnight Right. Obviously we've met up before and had to adhere by her husband's rules and it's felt super awkward. Last time she shrugged and looked awkward and just said, "He makes the rules. It's out of my control."

@Luckingfovely I'm not really sure how to broach it. She is HYPER sensitive and seems to perceive most things as criticism and then get defensive. I have found I have to REALLY walk on eggshells around her. When I've ever so gently tried to broach the subject in the past she has become super defensive and just talked about what an amazing person her husband is.

@Hiddencomic I know. It's shocking. I honestly don't even want to go at this point.

@Missedmytoe She sees her hubby as a really, really good person. Or at least that is what she says. I think it is a really big deal to her that he doesn't hit her.

@Gingergirl70 He actually does not allow her to work in the office and she works exclusively from home. Very occasionally she has to attend a work event in-person and when doing so she has to wear the special mask.

@Couldyounot it really is SO difficult to watch. I'm not clear yet on whether she deep down knows it's unhealthy or whether she doesn't actually know.

@Couldyounot of course, all of us who haven't been in abusive relationships can easily say 'nobody needs permission' but unless you've been through it, or have dealt with or worked with people who have, it's not so simple as to state the obvious. OP's friend might be so conditioned to being bullied and controlled, she thinks it's normal. Or she might recognise it's not normal but might be terrified to stand up for herself. There are a myriad of reasons why people stay in abusive relationships, a lot of which people couldn't comprehend or even try to. But it's certainly not a simple matter of telling her she doesn't need permission to socialise and all of a sudden she'll realise this herself and go pack her bags.

I would have to say something to her. Just because she's been in abusive relationships before, it doesn't mean she can recognise her current relationship is abusive.

I was in an extremely abusive relationship 15 years ago. I didn't want to leave him, I just wanted the abuse to stop and him to be the person I saw 75% of the time. It only ended as he broke up with me because he was convinced I had cheated on him (while looking after his children in our house). I told people I had left him; I was so ashamed that I had taken physical, sexual, verbal, financial and emotional abuse for two years and it was him who broke up with me. None of my friends told me to leave, none of my family. Everyone just watched, horrified at what was happening to me and told me afterwards that they were relieved as they thought he would end up killing me.

As an aside, what is the "50:50 lifestyle"?

@philautia Wow, I'm so sorry that none of your loved ones said anything.

In saying she's into the 50:50 lifestyle I mean she believes that once you're in a relationship you HAVE to do whatever your partner tells you to do and you are not allowed to have a will of your own. So not really 50:50 I guess, but more allowing your own independent identity to be destroyed.

@philautia What would you recommend I say? She is a pretty defensive person.

I had this with my lovely friend at uni. She got married quickly and when she was young. She fell head over heels. One day she came in with her laptop camera taped up and mumbled something about her husband didn't want devices being able to see her. I just kept up and encouraged her to see her family regularly (could see he was starting to isolate her from family and friends) and kept being there. Eventually it ended, she wanted children and he didn't and he decided the hassle of marriage was too much for him. The worst thing you can do is pull away and not see her, that's what he wants, he will say 'oh your friends aren't supportive of us, they don't like me and are trying to split us up'.

I think you should get this deleted and give less identifying details.

A man who has time on his hands and strong views on covid etc will spend time looking online, and MN will be the first thing that pops up a lot of the time. He would recognise this immediately and this could be dangerous for her.

I would purchase the freedom programme for her, and I would also give her the details for contacting women's aid. Maybe not say anything as such, as she will take it as a criticism, and she is in so deep that she will have an excuse for everything, but just ask her to chat to someone at WA to get a neutral pov on her situation.

Make sure she knows that she can absolutely always rely on you too, even if you haven't talked in months she can come to you if she needs.

All you can do is try and be supportive, she needs to see for herself that this isn't healthy at all, but its very difficult to watch while she figures it out.

@ArtemisW I'd say you've been thinking about her and you aren't sure what to make of things right now. That you're concerned about how much control he has over her, that no one should be able to tell her where she can go or what she can do. I'd also bring up the fact that he isn't working and the financial burden is on her. The mask wearing as well, I'd mention that.

I wouldn't just go into it guns blazing, I'd probably write some points down so I had it clear in my own head. She may storm out of the restaurant, she might raise her voice, she might get upset. But the level of control he has is terrifying and you have clearly been worrying about her.

I would not mention her past abusive relationships as then it may come across as that it's her fault and she has a "type".

I know what you mean about her being defensive, but I would rather risk her being angry with me than let her think I found this relationship normal.

This is so sad. I really feel for you - it's so difficult to know what the best thing to do is in these situations, OP. It's heartbreaking how she seemingly believes this is ok: "he makes the rules". Ew. You've had some good advice on here. Make sure you look after yourself too and in trying to be there for her and hopefully help her see she doesn't have to live like this, that you don't end up feeling too worried and responsible for her. It's wonderful that you're going to make an effort to help your friend, but ultimately what she decides to do is out of your control. I hope you can get somewhere with her.